Dry Stall in Midwest?

[herzausstahl]

Has anyone found a source in MN, WI, IL, or MI for dry stall? Or any other decent source for pumice? How is haydite generally viewed? I can get this http://www.sunleaves.com/Product/Details/SR334D. Obviously I can get napa 8822. Nothing I have is even close to needing root ramification yet but just looking ahead in case I would ever take the plunge & buy something more refined. Mostly looking for reasonable sources for decent ingredients, all views welcome! Especially Vance Wood or Mike Frary as their growing conditions seem very similar to mine if not slightly harsher. I'm in zone 5b, pretty sure it used to be on the border of 4a/5b.

 

[Vance Wood]

Pumice is a problem. I just started using Pumice the last couple of years because I found some at a show or two but I cannot trust I will be able to continue with it and I did get along without for over forty years. I do use red lava stone and that is getting expensive and difficult to get. I may have to go back to Truface. To be continued----

 

[chicago1980]

Has anyone found a source in MN, WI, IL, or MI for dry stall? Or any other decent source for pumice? How is haydite generally viewed? I can get this http://www.sunleaves.com/Product/Details/SR334D. Obviously I can get napa 8822. Nothing I have is even close to needing root ramification yet but just looking ahead in case I would ever take the plunge & buy something more refined. Mostly looking for reasonable sources for decent ingredients, all views welcome! Especially Vance Wood or Mike Frary as their growing conditions seem very similar to mine if not slightly harsher. I'm in zone 5b, pretty sure it used to be on the border of 4a/5b.

Hidden Garden has pumice by the tons. Jeff Schulz

 

[chicago1980]

Has anyone found a source in MN, WI, IL, or MI for dry stall? Or any other decent source for pumice? How is haydite generally viewed? I can get this http://www.sunleaves.com/Product/Details/SR334D. Obviously I can get napa 8822. Nothing I have is even close to needing root ramification yet but just looking ahead in case I would ever take the plunge & buy something more refined. Mostly looking for reasonable sources for decent ingredients, all views welcome! Especially Vance Wood or Mike Frary as their growing conditions seem very similar to mine if not slightly harsher. I'm in zone 5b, pretty sure it used to be on the border of 4a/5b.

http://www.thehiddengardens.net

 

[chicago1980]

My pumice has held up for 2 yrs. 5B Chicago.

 

[M. Frary]

I haven't used pumice here because it's kind of hard to get like Vance said.
I do use lava mixed with Napa 8822 and a little bark. Works well for me. In a pinch Napa 8822 can be used straight or for trees that like more monster soil.

 

[Vance Wood]

It's beginning to look like I may have to try the Napa 8822 just because of availability.

 

[chicago1980]

What is the cost of napa 8822?

 

[Adair M]

The cheapest way to get pumice is to buy it by the pallet. Vance, you could get a pallet, keep several bags that will last you a couple years, and sell the others to your club members. Or, alternately, your club could buy a pallet, and your club members share the cost, and each gets a few bags.

The only problem with buying by the pallet is taking delivery. It will be shipped to a commercial freight yard. And they want to be able to set the pallet on a trailer with a forklift. But the minor detail can be worked out.

I know several people who have purchased pallets of pumice from Jonas at www.bonsaitonight.com.

 

[justBonsai]

Napa is around $10 or so for a sizable bag--can't remember the dimensions. I haven't bought it in awhile but I just finished up my bag and will get another. 8822 is a good product and the integrity of the particles were held in the 2-3 years I've used it. The problem is that the average particle size is small so after you sift there is a lot of waste. Using it as is would result in a very water retentive mix which is what many of its critics do not like about it. Typically I run all my soils through a 3mm sieve (1/8th inch) and after running napa through that I lose at least half of my soil. Fines are great for seedlings though.

 

[sorce]

What is the cost of napa 8822?

I use a 2mm sifter.

Got about 3.5gallon of good and a gallon of fines after I blow the dust out.

@Vance Wood if my mugo wakes up in spring....which it will, I would surely recommend it for you.

______

It holds a lot of water....
But pure sifted, there are always air passages so it is never more than moist to the roots.
Water will go into the 8822 or out of the pot, even my drainless bottom baskets don't get stagnant.
When the top/sides dry, they wick water from the inside and bottom so it stays more consistent throughout the day.
That's why I don't add shit to break up the "neighbor wicking".

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

View attachment 130202

I use a 2mm sifter.

Got about 3.5gallon of good and a gallon of fines after I blow the dust out.

@Vance Wood if my mugo wakes up in spring....which it will, I would surely recommend it for you.

______

It holds a lot of water....
But pure sifted, there are always air passages so it is never more than moist to the roots.
Water will go into the 8822 or out of the pot, even my drainless bottom baskets don't get stagnant.
When the top/sides dry, they wick water from the inside and bottom so it stays more consistent throughout the day.
That's why I don't add shit to break up the "neighbor wicking".

Sorce

This is why we use calcined clay or Pumice, they hold water but don't break down and turn into snot. It is more the breakdown of structure that causes problems than it is how much water it retains AKA field capacity. If you don't know,--- field capacity is the amount of water a soil mix will retain after a through soaking, and for how long. This can be an issue if it is not allowed to drain before being soaked again. If it does not drain at all you have a problem but as is the case with Mugos; they like a lot of water to flush out the soil but they do not like to sit in wet soil.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

PM me, if you get to Milwaukee, I can hook you up.

 

[Vance Wood]

I appreciate the offer. I don't know for sure when we might be thru that part of the country again.

 

[herzausstahl]

PM me, if you get to Milwaukee, I can hook you up.

@Leo in N E Illinois I was gonna ask you where you get your pumice from as it should be close to me too. Milwaukee only 2hr drive for me. I titled the post Dry Stall thinking with all the farm supply stores in the state one might carry Dry Stall but I'm guessing more use a different product. Kind of sourcing ingredients to try in a soil mix at the moment. If I can't find smaller lava at any local garden center, I might order this to see the partial size. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-0-5-cu-ft-Red-Lava-R3RL/205137359

Anyone else check it out?

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks for the link I believe I am going to order a few bags of the stuff tomorrow. It looks like what I use.

 

[justBonsai]

@Leo in N E Illinois I was gonna ask you where you get your pumice from as it should be close to me too. Milwaukee only 2hr drive for me. I titled the post Dry Stall thinking with all the farm supply stores in the state one might carry Dry Stall but I'm guessing more use a different product. Kind of sourcing ingredients to try in a soil mix at the moment. If I can't find smaller lava at any local garden center, I might order this to see the partial size. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-0-5-cu-ft-Red-Lava-R3RL/205137359

Anyone else check it out?

The stuff at home depot is cheap but will be way too big for bonsai use. For my very first growing season because I didn't know where to source soil ingredients I bought one of those home depot bags and crushed the scoria with concrete bricks. Needless to say the amount time invested was not worth the cost.

 

[Vance Wood]

The stuff at home depot is cheap but will be way too big for bonsai use. For my very first growing season because I didn't know where to source soil ingredients I bought one of those home depot bags and crushed the scoria with concrete bricks. Needless to say the amount time invested was not worth the cost.

Are you sure we are talking about the same stuff? I know they carry large chunks for landscape purposes but I don't think I have seen what the bag seems to indicate as being what I have been using for years.

 

[Waltron]

hmm im also very curious, looking at the customer reviews it does appear to be the 1/4" lava rock. might have to ship some to store to investigate, could be a good new source. about damn time.

 

[Vance Wood]

hmm im also very curious, looking at the customer reviews it does appear to be the 1/4" lava rock. might have to ship some to store to investigate, could be a good new source. about damn time.

The web page says that the rock size is small. I realize small could mean smaller than a boulder but I am thinking small may be what I need. Now if we can get them to carry Pumice and #3 quarts sand we will be in business.