Dormancy Question

Ryan820

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Hello all-

Been doing some searching on here and elsewhere for an answer that may be pretty simple but I've not gotten clear direction. It is in regard to dormancy and trees that come to you from a very different climate.

I bought a chinese elm this past December that was/is actively growing and I recently received plants from evergreengardenworks.com and they are fantastic. Unfortunately, they're also swinging in to full blooming and leafing-out action even though Colorado will have none of it for another few weeks. So, the plants are staying inside. I grow many orchids, specifically japanese orchids, and I have a grow tent with HO t5s I use to keep them happy and growing. I pump humidity in to this tent too. this is where the trees currently live until the weather is kinder and gentler, perhaps, to move the trees outside. I should mention they get a roughly 13 hour a day photo period and ventilation is... robust, maybe... orchids like humidity but dislike stale air so there is a lot of air movement!

So I know how to harden off plants grown inside-- little at a time, keeping them in limited direct sun and try to keep out of the drying winds-- but when it comes to Fall here, should I allow these trees to stay outside up and just before a hard freeze (classically defined as 25F or lower), or, do I bring them in sooner? Sometimes Colorado gives a hard freeze well before the leaves of trees actually turn and fall off! And, for the chinese elm that I'm fairly certain hasn't had a dormancy period before be allowed to go in to dormancy as well? All of the plants I have currently will be in large pots because until I can provide a good cold frame outside, I know for a fact Colorado will kill these trees in the Winter (personal experience). I prefer to grow in the ground and intend to-- but one thing at a time (I also have to finish building my new chicken coop and raised beds first).

What I fear is that since my elm has likely never had a proper cold dormancy, that it won't receive it well. Is dormancy something, like hardening off, I have to do a little more over a period of years or will having it grow outisde all spring and summer and fall fix the situation on its own?

Sorry for wordiness--- not sure if I'm getting my message across!
 
You seem to know what you are doing, and your question is a good one. Your should allow your new trees to experience your fall and early winter weather there, it will be fine, they are tough. I am wondering how you plan on keeping them over the winter, as you say you will bring them "in". You need to allow a dormancy period for these trees, or they will eventually die. They may last a few years, but will struggle without a good dormant winter. You should come up with a protection plan, unheated garage would be a good start, and leave them outside for the winter.
One thing, Brent is great at answering questions, if you have questions about a tree from him, maybe email and ask him direct.
 
I am wondering how you plan on keeping them over the winter, as you say you will bring them "in". You need to allow a dormancy period for these trees, or they will eventually die.

My mistake-- I failed to mention that I would store them in a cold (unheated but protected) garage. They would receive light only when my car comes in and out. Sorry about that... you weren't privy to the conversation in my head! :p

And thanks for the advice re Brent-- I love that guy! I will certainly ask for his take. Thanks!
 
After you get through this spring, summer and into fall you should just do what your going to do. I grow a Chinese elm here in northern mn. When fall and freezing temps start to be a reality, I move my non-hardy stuff to the garage. At some point they get moved into my heated cold frame. I don't let it freeze, but I let it get pretty close to it.

It sits in my cold frame until the middle of March. It's one of my first trees that I bring into my house( a sunny, south facing window). It seems to force its way out of dormancy even at 37 degrees in the dark. When spring finally comes in mid-May I ease it outside into the sun and wind for a couple of weeks. I've done it this way for 5+ years and it's thriving.

I would say just have a good plan for this fall and do it. Don't let it freeze keep it cool and dark, know that it usually has a short dormant period naturally.

Others might chime in about cold hardiness, I just don't let it freeze hard.
 
After you get through this spring, summer and into fall you should just do what your going to do. I grow a Chinese elm here in northern mn. When fall and freezing temps start to be a reality, I move my non-hardy stuff to the garage. At some point they get moved into my heated cold frame. I don't let it freeze, but I let it get pretty close to it.

It sits in my cold frame until the middle of March. It's one of my first trees that I bring into my house( a sunny, south facing window). It seems to force its way out of dormancy even at 37 degrees in the dark. When spring finally comes in mid-May I ease it outside into the sun and wind for a couple of weeks. I've done it this way for 5+ years and it's thriving.

I would say just have a good plan for this fall and do it. Don't let it freeze keep it cool and dark, know that it usually has a short dormant period naturally.

Others might chime in about cold hardiness, I just don't let it freeze hard.

OK that's good to hear as it is what I was figuring I should do. The J Maple and the Quinces have been through Brent's CA winters but never a Colorado one. I wouldnt say we get worse weather than what you likely see, but my biggest issue is the drying wind we get and the extreme fluctuations of temps (70 and sunny a day or two before a blizzard is very common). My one quince I had for several years from Brent was fooled this year... started budding out... and then came the 5F storm that gave very little snow and a lot of cold and wind. Our native trees don't skip a beat but this quince, even after four years at my property doesn't get it. Stay asleep until mothers day.

The elm is the one I'm most concerned about because I don't know how many seasons its been going without a rest. I know c elms can handle such a thing but those I've seen that do observe a winter rest seems quite robust and happier (no evidence to support this, just observation). And Ishould mention I have two elms-- a common variety from a garden here in my town and a extremely small-leafed variety from Brent. Even though the one from Brent is a whip, you can already tell it was in a rest state and is coming out of this state with vigor. Its Ulmus parvifolia 'Seiju'. seriously... these leaves are TINY! Thinking it may be mame-worthy. It's a tall whip, though, and I'd love to propagate it.

Thank you so much for your input!
 
I graduated from Northglenn High School. I know how 70's and blizzards go day by day. You can lessen the blow of that by keeping things on the shady side of the house and slow down how they come out of a dormant phase. That's what I have to do in the spring. It's tempting to put them out in the sun, but the shallow pots heat up faster than the soil and that's the problem.

For me, I'm looking at the average date of the last frost as a guide. That's probably a good regional piece of advice. Our average date of last frost is like the third week in May. I imagine Texas has passed theirs!! Colorado has several weeks to go!
 
I graduated from Northglenn High School. I know how 70's and blizzards go day by day. You can lessen the blow of that by keeping things on the shady side of the house and slow down how they come out of a dormant phase. That's what I have to do in the spring. It's tempting to put them out in the sun, but the shallow pots heat up faster than the soil and that's the problem.

For me, I'm looking at the average date of the last frost as a guide. That's probably a good regional piece of advice. Our average date of last frost is like the third week in May. I imagine Texas has passed theirs!! Colorado has several weeks to go!

Ah, then you're versed in the insanity the front range can be! LOL

Seems our average last frost is May 5th-- this is why I aim for mother's day for all things gardening outside. Funny thing is, so many people start taking our nice days as signs spring is here! Anyone connected to the land or spend a fair amount of time outside know better... and then the disappointment hits those who aren't connected and they complain about how awful the weather is. Lame.
 
Ah, then you're versed in the insanity the front range can be! LOL

Seems our average last frost is May 5th-- this is why I aim for mother's day for all things gardening outside. Funny thing is, so many people start taking our nice days as signs spring is here! Anyone connected to the land or spend a fair amount of time outside know better... and then the disappointment hits those who aren't connected and they complain about how awful the weather is. Lame.

100 year averages are better to go by than current temp for sure!!
 
FWIW...I purchased 2 Seiju and 2 Hokkaido Chinese elms from Brent and before they were planted out in MA saw temps in the teens several nights in a row with no ill effects. Chinese elms are rated to usda zone 5 and can handle hard freezes, though sub zero temps in a pot are a different story. I think your overwintering plan with the garage is a good one.
 
Ryan820, I have seen many Chinese Elms in Southern Florida that are from 10-35 years old and have never seen a dormancy period. They are all alive and thriving as Chinese Elms are semi-deciduos types not needing dormancy but can handle that type of growing conditions. I would treat them like any thing else if I were going to allow them the cold temps I would slowly acclimate them to that.

ed
 
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