Discussion of rules for 2023 ROR contest

[Gabler]

I think sometimes its good to be constrained a little though, especially in contest situations, as it takes more of a forward thinking eye. What sort of rock would suit X genus the most, what style of tree, what composition etc. Forcing a beginner or less experienced person, such as myself, to narrow down those selective options can make for more of a learning experience than throwing mud a wall to see what sticks.

I don’t think that a specific species would be right necessarily either. I like @Gabler ‘s suggestion of a genus instead. For example, most places in the world have Acer, Malus and Prunus native or imported pretty readily and they’re also reasonably quick to develop (though not necessarily to flower).

To clarify, my knee-jerk reaction was to think, “Ew. Gross. Species restrictions? No way!” But then I thought about it a bit to figure out why someone would want to limit the species selection, and I must confess I recognize there are some advantages. I suggested a genus restriction in lieu of a species restriction as a sort of compromise. That idea backfired, as now there are three camps instead of two. I’m still in favor of a genus or family restriction as a middle ground amongst the camps.

 

[Gabler]

Just throwing it out there that Moraceae includes both tropical and temperate species, namely Ficus (figs) and Morus (mulberries). As a bonus, both genera are fast growers, nearly bulletproof (for rookies), and responsive to bonsai techniques.

 

[James W.]

Just throwing it out there that Moraceae includes both tropical and temperate species, namely Ficus (figs) and Morus (mulberries). As a bonus, both genera are fast growers, nearly bulletproof (for rookies), and responsive to bonsai techniques.

Another family worth considering is Rosaceae which would include cherry, crabapple, and cotoneaster. Probably something for any climate, many already recognized as good candidates for bonsai.

 

[James W.]

Either these families would stretch the recognition of what is normally considered good candidates for ROR.

 

[ZombieNick]

I'm with @Woocash too many rules/categories etc. Apart from the JBP from seed competition (which makes sense because JBP is one of the most widely grown trees in bonsai and can grow in almost every climate), the competitions are very broad like "grow a forest".

I think you should be able to do anything ROR, and similar to the forest competition you have a "from seed" and "sapling" category and that's it. Otherwise if we get down to picking specific tree types it takes out some of the fun. I can grow ficus here but not really maple (at least I don't want to put in the effort to grow them) so lets highlight each region/climate and we can compare ROR projects in 5 years or something.

I agree and don't really see the benefit in limiting species... a huge part of the "strategy" is selecting the correct species for your area, to get the best results within the contest timeframe. I also think it would be nice to give people the option to do something with cuttings or airlayers they may already have lying around; setting limits to species and age almost guarantees I have to go out and buy something.

 

[yashu]

Everybody just do what you want! Just make sure there’s some sort of rock in the pot at the end

This seems to have turned into a “too many cooks in the kitchen” situation… compound that with the participation trophy mentality where the hurdles to entry are about as high as a parking lot speed bump. I personally like the idea of it being challenging so one has to up their game to be successful. I also recognize that I’m just one more noisemaker in this already cacophonous space so take from that what you will.

 

[Woocash]

@James W. Or @August being that the general consensus is that there is no real consensus just set some conditions and people will either participate or not. I assume, given the fact you two were ones who started threads for a contest one or both of you would be interested in doing the admin for this? I’d volunteer, but I have trouble remembering to reply to my mum half the time!

I reckon if someone just sets some rules then people will sign up. Whatever the stipulation, its unlikely to put too many people off that otherwise would have entered so have at it is what I’d say!

 

[Kievnstavick]

If we agree to limiting to a family for ROR, I for the Fabaceae. Although as a disclaimer, I do have lots of trees in this family currently under way.

I'm in agreement with James W. on if we leave the only limitation to being ROR style then we are all more or less just agreeing to start a ROR at the same time. It doesn't really inspire me to try something or challenge my perceptions.

I think for the people wanting an open selection vs the people wanting specific limited species then choosing a broad and accessible family (or two) is a decent compromise.

 

[Lorax7]

Either these families would stretch the recognition of what is normally considered good candidates for ROR.

Huh??? I don’t understand this sentiment. Ficus over a rock, wall, ancient temple, and anything else that isn’t moving fast enough is about as iconic a ROR subject as it gets. Growing on top of other structures is literally the thing hemiepiphytes evolved to do. Ever seen photos of Angkor Wat?

 

[ShadyStump]

I've gone over to the "over complicating it/shut up and do it" camp as well.

I've not seen an unreasonable point made this far, but let's remember the two key things here are fun and challenge.
That said, I'll back the compromise by saying we should limit it to BOTH the moraceae and rosaceae families, for this

Either these families would stretch the recognition of what is normally considered good candidates for ROR.

exact reason.
They may not be traditional Asian style choices, but I think we can all agree that bonsai is no longer a monopoly of the orient, and these families are widely available enough to include virtually everyone who might like participate. They also include species that are only recently being investigated for bonsai, like the genus cercocarpus of the rosaceae family which has great potential and in all it's species can be found naturally in a ROR situation.
If there's an insistence on a more traditional tree, we could also include acer. Between the two and maybe third, there is more than enough variety to experiment, imitate, or whatever you want, and all are fast growers available in every part of the inhabited world.
I say 6 years because there's hardly a human with an internet connection who can't eat an apple and plant the seeds. That's 5 for the competition, and 1 more for the seed.

Edit: No I'm not suggesting that we require a start from seed. Just commenting on the accessibility.

 

[Kievnstavick]

Reading over the replies that occur when I was typing up my response, I am in agreement of moraceae and rosaceae families.

At least I am already getting inspired by the thought of selecting something in the rosaceae family to try out.

 

[Bricker918]

I vote for keeping it simple, especially since the prize is just a pat on the back.

-6 years, from seedling, layer, or cutting. No thicker than a pencil.
-Must be in a pot at the end
-At least 2 updates a year
-No species restrictions

 

[misfit11]

I vote for keeping it simple, especially since the prize is just a pat on the back.

-6 years, from seedling, layer, or cutting. No thicker than a pencil.
-Must be in a pot at the end
-At least 2 updates a year
-No species restrictions

This

Oh, and it needs to be rooted over a rock!

 

[August]

I'm team moraceae and rosaceae. Anyone can put themselves to the challenge of rooting a tree over a rock as they like. I think if the contest is to stay interesting, the contestants should be faced with a novel challenge in some way or another. To move forward in an art is to try new things.

There's thousands of species to work with between the two families, and likely dozens of natives in each BNutter's region, I think it's more of a leaping off point than a constraint. If anything it should make it easier to choose a species to work with

Edit: In this case, the "prize" is experience in (hopefully) rarely seen and interesting species, and being able to share that experience with the hobby!

 

[James W.]

Here's what I am thinking right now:
Limit to two families, Moraceae and Rosaceae, which should give plenty of choices including some fun non-traditional entries.
Limit size and/or age of starting material. Maybe nothing bigger than 3/8" (10mm).
One entry per person but unlimited starts. Tie as many trees to rocks as you want but submit only one for final evaluation. (my experience is that I need several starts to get one good enough to continue growing a third season)
5 year duration. Five years is almost not enough time to get good roots developed over a rock, especially if it is not a maple or an elm. This is part of the challenge.

I like the comments, keep them coming. I will finalize guidelines Friday or Saturday.

 

[August]

@James W. Thank you very much for taking on the challenge of regulating the rules while also keeping my input in mind. If there's anything I can do to help, just send me a message! Looking forward to starting some mountain mahogany seeds!

 

[James W.]

What would you all think of opening up the contest to Exposed Root as well as Root over Rock styles?

 

[August]

What would you all think of opening up the contest to Exposed Root as well as Root over Rock styles?

Personally I think that the limitations are good as they are. We've been back and forth about what's too constraining and what's too open and I think what we've come up with is a good middle line. No need to add limitations or take them away!

 

[leatherback]

What would you all think of opening up the contest to Exposed Root as well as Root over Rock styles?

I think this is a different discussion and should not be in this thread as it will confuse this thread.

 

[James W.]

I think this is a different discussion and should not be in this thread as it will confuse this thread.

Yeah, you're right. Exposed root is too much different. Sorry I brought it up.