Deshojo JM Care

ajm55555

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This is my absolute favorite species and the first tree I had (and killed :-( )
I read a lot about it but I still haven't understood many things.
The most shocking article was Walter Pall's on his world famous tree that got killed probably by Verticillium wilt or another fungus.
Does anyone has more information about these topics below or any other?
  • Is it such a weak cultivar in general? If yes, why is it popular as a bonsai? Because it's beautiful and an easy sell? ;-)
  • Can it live a long life or it gets to 20-30 years at most?
  • How easily is it attacked by Verticillium wilt or other fungus?
  • What can you do to avoid problems? Not expose it to the rain? Use clean tools and seal cuts? Will it get a disease anyway eventually?
 

sorce

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Recently read they get fungus if in the ground...

W.P. puts his trees on the ground for winter....

Maybe different protection?

Sorce
 

Velodog2

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You have to love the pics you see of this cultivar in the spring with the vibrant leaves. The one you post I'm not especially fond of as the styling doesn't look much like a maple to me, but Peter Adams had one that was one of my all-time favorite trees. JM are not especially long lived trees in general I don't think and you never see truly 'ancient' ones. I think I've read maybe 100 yrs is max. I'd guess the one you picture is more than 20-30 yrs old.
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There are better studio glamour shots of this tree, but they don't have Peter! Still, just breathtaking. Googling brings up lots of images of old trees so it is certainly possible to get them to live quite a while. Perhaps extra prophylactic fungicide sprayings are in order.
 
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ajm55555

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The one you post I'm not especially fond of as the styling doesn't look much like a maple to me
I agree with you. That was just for reference.
maybe 100 yrs is max
That would be enough for me ;-)
Googling brings up lots of images of old trees
I actually didn't find too many pictures of really old Deshojo trees and sometimes you can't even be sure it's a Deshojo. That's why I was wondering what age this particular cultivar can reach. If you say it should be about the same as other cultivars, I'd be happy with that.
 
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discusmike

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I have deshojo n seigen in ground growing with no issues,I believe peter Adams tree is a seigen and I'm sure it was ground grown originally before he imported the tree from Japan
 

Velodog2

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I have deshojo n seigen in ground growing with no issues,I believe peter Adams tree is a seigen and I'm sure it was ground grown originally before he imported the tree from Japan
Very possible it's not a deshojo, although it was included in the google search results for that cultivar! I don't always research my replies as thoroughly as I should, i.e. Talk out my ass. But it was an opportunity to look up and post a great tree so I went w it ;-)
 

discusmike

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I treat them no different then any other tree growing out in the ground,3rd season for seigen,5th for the deshojo.If you have long periods of rain in early spring watch for the white fluffy mold,this is easily treated with fungicide,since I spray trees every early spring before buds break I have had no issues, tree is about 8' tall.
 

aphid

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I was just reading on Walter's blog about that. I have a Shindeshojo. I hope it doesn't suffer the same fate.
 

Paradox

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Sad that it died.
Fungus is nasty stuff
 

0soyoung

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@ajm55555, there is no substitute for doing a little autopsy on your dead tree. If verticillium had been to blame you would have found dark 'streaks' in the wood (the tree would have suddenly died/'flamed out' in early spring, before temperature were well above 70F). If it was nectria canker, you would have seen orange fruiting bodies in late summer and/or early fall. If you drowned the roots despite using an inorganic substrate or overdid root pruning, death most likely happened soon after repotting. Etc. Keep notes and do an autopsy when death occurs.

I have a shin deshojo in my yard. Planted it there 10, maybe 11, years ago. There is another one 5 blocks away that has been then for just about as long and another pair about 4 block away for about 5 years now. All were 5-10 year old trees when planted and are thriving, healthy, beautiful, grafted landscape specimens. Mine gets pruned and air layered just about every year. I'm not sure that the owners of the others do anything to/with theirs.

I've had troubles getting layers established on their own roots and met with constant failure over a span of 4 years. After a respite, it now seems like a piece of cake to layer even though I continue to experience troubles getting the layers 'established' on their own roots. Last year I had three layers from the previous season and two of them died. I'm not clear on exactly why, but it is just like my past experience. I also harvested another 5 layers last year, that are all leafing out nicely this year (we'll see).

I've had one or more of 17 different varieties of 'Japanese maples' (a. palmatum, a. shirasawanum) in my landscape and/or in pots. I've killed 7 trees (total) in 3 of those varieties by my mistakes. One died because of a problem that wasn't apparent when I bought it. One was lost to nectria. My mistake with that particular one led to infecting two other trees (not sterilizing my pruners).
 

petegreg

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I wouldn't say there's any difference in care between Deshojo and other JMs.

Deshojo is one of them growing more vigorously for me. I love its smaller leaves, spring red colour and then "red on green" (new flushes on older leaves)... So far I've taken only two air-layers from Deshojo, both sent out roots in a few months and were separated in summer ('15, '16). One of them has been growing in the ground for clump/multi trunk style and the second one potted for feminine shohin.

But take my Deshojo experiences as limited, only some five years...
 

ajm55555

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Keep notes and do an autopsy when death occurs
Sorry Sean, I did not explain why I lost it. That was a much clearer desease: watering (lack of) ;-)
What I'm trying to understand now here is how to avoid Walter's issues or any other issue for the current one I have, which is healthy and a pleasure to look at.
I've had troubles getting layers established on their own roots
I bought mine online and it's not grafted but has healthy roots. I guess if you pass a critical point then you should be fine
My mistake with that particular one led to infecting two other trees (not sterilizing my pruners).
This is something I learned here to be very important.

Now I'm gathering any other information I can about the Deshojo to avoid trouble since this seems to be a delicate species. It would really hurt if mine should die...
 

0soyoung

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Now I'm gathering any other information I can about the Deshojo to avoid trouble

I've noticed that Danny Use (Ginko Bonsai) has deshojo bonsai in Belgium. Maybe contact him.

Another option is Chishio. It has similar coral red foliage and is maybe hardier than deshojo/shin deshojo. Contact @Brian Van Fleet - he has a very nice one that has been featured in several threads both here on BNut and on his blog.
 
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