Curious if this is more of a woman thing...or if men also struggle with this

[JudyB]

I usually study pictures of masterpieces of the same tree to find what looks good with particular tree (could be a style as well as a specie) Then I go see what I can afford and that I like. Availability plays a huge part in the choice as well.

 

[GrimLore]

When I had trees I always used unglazed well made pots, usually dark brown, black, or very dark grey. There are some in storage at the moment unglazed tiny pots that are dark maroon, very dark green, and maybe a couple that are light brown. I felt and continue to feel I want attention to the tree - all attention. I took interest two years ago in flowering plants to add color not pots as the whole thing looked a bit drab stacked together. Again I still used very subtle containers... Not just me either. I see and know many that prefer less decoration and more tree. There is a lot to be said on the subject but it has been mentioned in this thread that a more Wabi Sabi approach can often net more pleasing results - In my notes I have this small reminder I copied from an internet article along the way, author unknown to me but not copyrighted -

Wabi-sabi is the quintessential Japanese aesthetic. It is a beauty of things imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete. It is a beauty of things modest and humble. It is a beauty of things unconventional...

It is also two separate words, with related but different meanings. "Wabi" is the kind of perfect beauty that is seemingly-paradoxically caused by just the right kind of imperfection, such as an asymmetry in a ceramic bowl which reflects the handmade craftsmanship, as opposed to another bowl which is perfect, but soul-less and machine-made.

"Sabi" is the kind of beauty that can come only with age, such as the patina on a very old bronze statue.

Grimmy

 

[Ironbeaver]

Put your trees in the pots that look good to you. If the Old Guard at the Bonsai Club shake their heads, point, and whisper then good for you. I've been giving pot choice some thought recently because I'm colourblind, and combinations that look good to me may not look good to everyone else.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Consider Are you only going to make display for self? Then does not matter much. If for show display or judging than pot matching matters much. Still some flexibility is there. Think newly developing American bonsai style. See example on Bonsai Mirai site of trees for sale and others. Some pots different than the color wheel at least a little. Old formality and rigidity of Japanese not necessarily written in stone for USA!

 

[rockm]

Put your trees in the pots that look good to you. If the Old Guard at the Bonsai Club shake their heads, point, and whisper then good for you. I've been giving pot choice some thought recently because I'm colourblind, and combinations that look good to me may not look good to everyone else.

This is just plain silly. Some of the "Old Guard" will shake their heads, but most realize that the reason "traditional" pots look good is the shapes glazes and details in them have been fine tuned to make the tree in them look good. Same goes for the better Western potters. The proportions, textures and other techniques used in "Old Guard" pots have been proven to work and the better western potters integrate some of those techniques into their work, as well as some Western esthetics.

More than a few western potters aiming to be "bonsai potters" tend to either not understand those techniques, or simply just want to draw attention to their work--which is the OPPOSITE of what a bonsai pot is supposed to do.

Pots are SUBORDINATE to trees in a composition. Potters are SECONDARY artists in the pecking order of bonsai. This is hardly a slight. It takes a very skilled potter to walk the line between a pot that supports a tree and one that overwhelms it.

 

[Cadillactaste]

This is just plain silly. Some of the "Old Guard" will shake their heads, but most realize that the reason "traditional" pots look good is the shapes glazes and details in them have been fine tuned to make the tree in them look good. Same goes for the better Western potters. The proportions, textures and other techniques used in "Old Guard" pots have been proven to work and the better western potters work some of those techniques into their work, as well as some Western esthetics.

More than a few western potters aiming to be "bonsai potters" tend to either not understand those techniques, or simply just want to draw attention to their work--which is the OPPOSITE of what a bonsai pot is supposed to do.

Pots are SUBORDINATE to trees in a composition. Potters are SECONDARY artists in the pecking order of bonsai. This is hardly a slight. It takes a very skilled potter to walk the line between a pot that supports a tree and one that overwhelms it.

So agree...I totally get the reason behind the pot and tree. I would think the wiser well understood one in the knowledge of what is a good pairing would just come to know...young whippersnapper just beginning their bonsai path still has much learning...but they will get there one day. A good potter compliments the tree in their works. But with accent pots and such they can add their creative sense of style.

 

[Dav4]

YOU MADE MY DAY! My trees are mostly SHOHIN!!! Adair...you are a clever man!

It's the wine....

 

[rockm]

So agree...I totally get the reason behind the pot and tree. I would think the wiser well understood one in the knowledge of what is a good pairing would just come to know...young whippersnapper just beginning their bonsai path still has much learning...but they will get there one day. A good potter compliments the tree in their works. But with accent pots and such they can add their creative sense of style.

I just posted this Valavanis blog link separately, but it's worth posting here to illustrate a point. Note the fourth photo from the top-the flowering/fruiting tree (not sure of the species). Whatever it is, the pot it's in is about as flawless a choice as could be made for it. It is subtle, but dynamic, using SIMILAR MUTED colors with the same squigglyish shapes at the tree's trunk. The pot's base color is also grey like the tree's. The rounded shape mimics the rounded off curves of the trunk..excellent unconventional tree matched with an equally unconventional pot...
http://valavanisbonsaiblog.com/2015/11/19/2015-autumn-japan-bonsai-exploration-part-2/

 

[Dav4]

I usually study pictures of masterpieces of the same tree to find what looks good with particular tree (could be a style as well as a specie) Then I go see what I can afford and that I like. Availability plays a huge part in the choice as well.

Honestly, this is the key. Looking at well done tree/pot combos and studying them to understand why they work so well. The more exposure you have to quality bonsai, be it in person, on line, or in magazines and books, the better you will be at designing trees and fitting them with an appropriate pot.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Honestly, this is the key. Looking at well done tree/pot combos and studying them to understand why they work so well. The more exposure you have to quality bonsai, be it in person, on line, or in magazines and books, the better you will be at designing trees and fitting them with an appropriate pot.

Great advice. I'm hearing it a lot from different people. Hope to make it to good workshops and shows in the future.
From Jiro Dreams of Sushi:

“In order to make delicious food, you must eat delicious food. The quality of ingredients is important, but one must develop a palate capable of discerning good and bad. Without good taste, you can’t make good food. If your sense of taste is lower than that of the customers how will you impress them?”​

We don't consume bonsai the way we do food, but we sure can feast on them thoroughly with our eyes when we see them in person. And we can begin to create better bonsai through practice with an experienced person. (Just my philosopher side thinking out loud.)

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Honestly, this is the key. Looking at well done tree/pot combos and studying them to understand why they work so well. The more exposure you have to quality bonsai, be it in person, on line, or in magazines and books, the better you will be at designing trees and fitting them with an appropriate pot.

By the way, when I am styling a specific species of tree in a certain way, I will often find an inspiring example of that tree and style to refer to. Sometimes it is a bonsai, and sometimes it is a tree in nature. On occasion I will print a photo off from my computer and bring it out to my styling area as reference material. Then I glance at it once in a while as I work on my tree. I never try to style my trees to look the same AS any other tree, but for some reason it helps me stay grounded in the 'feeling' I am trying to accomplish.

 

[rockm]

The number one goal to bonsai is doing it because it gives you joy, happiness and keeps you interested in the hobby by the shear serendipity of finding things that blow your skirt up.

I am reminded of the recent thread by Fourteener and his waning of interest in the hobby. There is no joy , no happiness, and possibly no sense of satisfaction anymore. He even related his feeling towards current bonsai convention and his emotions being torn by confusion within the art. When bonsai occupies that part of the senses for a period of time the fun drains out and bonsai becomes less fun and more work. I too struggle with bonsai stands. I love building them, designing them and finishing them. I do good work and people want me to make stands. I live in a hot place in summer and a cold place in winter. I have few months to actually work on stands. Commissions are requested any time of year and its hard to tell someone you can only start next fall when it cools down. Pretty soon building stands becomes work and there is no longer any fun.

Buy cool stands, buy artful pots. Buy trees that bring you joy and forget the rest. You only have to answer to you and no one else. That is what keeps a person sane.

All well and good. However, what brings you joy can change. The pot you once thought was just SPECK TACK CULAR ten years ago might look a little "WTF was I thinking?" now. I've got a few of those--or had. Sold them off which brought me more joy

 

[rockm]

When I had trees I always used unglazed well made pots, usually dark brown, black, or very dark grey. There are some in storage at the moment unglazed tiny pots that are dark maroon, very dark green, and maybe a couple that are light brown. I felt and continue to feel I want attention to the tree - all attention. I took interest two years ago in flowering plants to add color not pots as the whole thing looked a bit drab stacked together. Again I still used very subtle containers... Not just me either. I see and know many that prefer less decoration and more tree. There is a lot to be said on the subject but it has been mentioned in this thread that a more Wabi Sabi approach can often net more pleasing results - In my notes I have this small reminder I copied from an internet article along the way, author unknown to me but not copyrighted -

Wabi-sabi is the quintessential Japanese aesthetic. It is a beauty of things imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete. It is a beauty of things modest and humble. It is a beauty of things unconventional...

It is also two separate words, with related but different meanings. "Wabi" is the kind of perfect beauty that is seemingly-paradoxically caused by just the right kind of imperfection, such as an asymmetry in a ceramic bowl which reflects the handmade craftsmanship, as opposed to another bowl which is perfect, but soul-less and machine-made.

"Sabi" is the kind of beauty that can come only with age, such as the patina on a very old bronze statue.

Grimmy

I understand what Wabi Sabi is. It certainly doesn't mean musty and dark. The terms have become the Western shorthand for a host of Japanese esthetics that can apply to bonsai (and they're not bound by their "Japanese-ness either. The aesthetics translate well into "natural") Shibui is arguably more apt for bonsai artists--it implies simple, subtle and unobtrusive beauty.

If you search around you can find definitions like this for Shibui:
"Shibui objects appear to be simple overall but they include subtle details, such as textures, that balance simplicity with complexity. This balance of simplicity and complexity ensures that one does not tire of a shibui object but constantly finds new meanings and enriched beauty that cause its aesthetic value to grow over the years. "

Also "many wabi or sabi objects are shibui, not all shibui objects are wabi or sabi. Wabi or sabi objects can be more severe and sometimes exaggerate intentional imperfections to such an extent that they can appear to be artificial."

"Shibui objects are not necessarily imperfect or asymmetrical, though they can include these qualities. Shibui walks a fine line between contrasting aesthetic concepts such as elegant and rough or spontaneous and restrained."

Yugen is another concept that applies. It implies a deeper mystery and subtle profundity in things beneath the surface.

All of these things can be kept in mind in looking at bonsai, as well as making or selecting pots...

Of course, you can reject all of it and go your own way, but eventually, you will circle back to here in some way or another. Bonsai is, at its' best, simple, subtle and unobtrusive.

 

[GrimLore]

The aesthetics translate well into "natural". Shibui is arguably more apt for bonsai artists--it implies simple, subtle and unobtrusive beauty.

Well put but I was simply stating that simplicity starts with nothing is perfect... Wabi Sabi. There is a quite a few Japanese aesthetics and they are often "mixed" or closely knit on points. Either way when I read that explanation it tends to calm me down and definitely makes the journey a more pleasant one. In the States we tend to go with "bigger, better, faster, more" and I really avoid that with plants and have slowed my life enjoying it all more.

In Zen philosophy there are seven aesthetic principles for achieving Wabi-Sabi;

Fukinsei: asymmetry, irregularity;

Kanso: simplicity;

Koko: basic, weathered;

Shizen: without pretense, natural;

Yugen: subtly profound grace, not obvious;

Datsuzoku: unbounded by convention, free;

Seijaku: tranquility.


Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

This caused a light bulb to go off in my head! The dramatic color behind the tree closely matching color of the pot...WOW!

 

[crust]

I always was stunned at how good Lenz is at pot-matching trees. He had the benefit of being able to make the appropriate pot--which really leads to perfectionism and different thinking. He wasn't always the most advanced ceramist and always dealt with the limitations of his primitive set up but he is a master of proportion. One can drag in new things but if the proportion is off, it fails no matter what. I think more than a few of the American potters struggle with this-- their pots get down-right boaty.

 

[Vance Wood]

The pot is more like a picture frame than jewelry.

It is interesting however; in the Chinese tradition the pot is somewhat more important and considered as much as the tree. The possibilities of a flamboyant pot are more likely. The Japanese tradition is more of choosing a pot that compliments the tree and makes the tree look better or "More".

 

[Cadillactaste]

Off note: on the hour drive to the eye doctor. My son asked me how my day was...and I said, well I have been thinking a lot about bonsai pots dear. He said,"Well that couldn't have taken up much of your time!" I laughed and told him about this tread. And he went all theoretically they are correct. And we had a very long discussion as to why those who choose from the color wheel method are on to something. You are not fighting with the tree for focal point mom! To have it the same color your eyes wouldn't know which to settle on first...and if a really nice pot it would go to the pot first. Schooled by my 15 year old son...then he starts pointing out architecture and the colors they use. Um-mm didn't see that coming.


So my son suggested I do a test if you will.
I am going to attempt to put half of my trees in pots that are conventional...then some not so conventional pairings...and see which after awhile become my favorite. Visually seeing it paired on a bench. Having both for comparison. My son states will soon pull me over to the appropriate way pairing of pot and tree should be done. Lol love his thought process.

He then also suggested use the bold pots as ones suggest...accent pots. Sitting them in among the bonsai as well. He thinks that my seeing them as accents that the trees in a bold pot will also come to drive me nuts. You need the entire package to get the full grasp of what they are trying to teach you...once all the pieces are put out in front of you. I think you will choose correctly.

He is not into bonsai...but is into architecture and is slightly OCD himself with attention to details.

 

[Eric Group]

I just posted this Valavanis blog link separately, but it's worth posting here to illustrate a point. Note the fourth photo from the top-the flowering/fruiting tree (not sure of the species). Whatever it is, the pot it's in is about as flawless a choice as could be made for it. It is subtle, but dynamic, using SIMILAR MUTED colors with the same squigglyish shapes at the tree's trunk. The pot's base color is also grey like the tree's. The rounded shape mimics the rounded off curves of the trunk..excellent unconventional tree matched with an equally unconventional pot...
http://valavanisbonsaiblog.com/2015/11/19/2015-autumn-japan-bonsai-exploration-part-2/

I was reading thisuy one yesterday... Did you norptice the repeated image? He posted the same tree twice- pic 10 I think and the next to last tree pic in the article looks to be the same pic... It stood out to me because I have been focusing on pots more lately and the pot that one is in was one of the most interesting and dynamic pots in that group of pics I thought! A beautiful pot... But perhaps it stands out too much I noticed it as much as I did...

Personally I know practically nothing about matching trees and pots, and only recently started to get into pots much at all... I find myself drawn to colorful, flashy ones by themselves, but on trees... I like the unglazed or muted colored pots better almost every time. A light green, cream or a blue that isn't all shiny and new looking fits better on a wider range of trees than one of those wild multi- colored glazes with drippy tie-die looking swirls... A regular old brown unglazed can fit just about any tree, especially any Juniper or pine, and will look better than some eye catching crazy rainbow colored pot! So... I bought a bunch of used unglazed Well- made Japanese pots from a local guy recently. I got a few more flashy ones too... But my goal when buying pots is to use them more as the gram Adair was talking about than the Jewelry our ladies with "Cadillac Tastes" may prefer! .

I guess "utilitarian" would be my style when it comes to pots. I WANT TO BUY all the cool looking ones, but I know I will probably never use them.

Aside- Someone here recently commented in a thread about American potters that they do not make good rectangles... After really looking at a wide range of American made pots, I realized the truth in that comment. The angular, refined antique Japanese pots... The old wedge shaped ones with the windows and the ones with the smoother more rounded lines that are simple elegant, fade to lighter colors in the middle.. There is just nothing like that being made by American potters! Maybe it shows a progression, or a mindset that American potters are artists not craftsmen... But to me, I feel like maybe they would learn a lot and improve a lot if they perfect the classic Bonsai pot first, before moving on to the "artsy" stuff! JMHO. Gorgeous stuff being made in America... Lots of beautiful ART being made by American potters.. I just don't know if I want to plant trees in some of them. I am sure it is possible I "just don't get it" or don't have the trees to over power those pots. Just saying what I feel.

 

[Eric Group]

I was reading thisuy one yesterday... Did you norptice the repeated image? He posted the same tree twice- pic 10 I think and the next to last tree pic in the article looks to be the same pic... It stood out to me because I have been focusing on pots more lately and the pot that one is in was one of the most interesting and dynamic pots in that group of pics I thought! A beautiful pot... But perhaps it stands out too much I noticed it as much as I did...

Personally I know practically nothing about matching trees and pots, and only recently started to get into pots much at all... I find myself drawn to colorful, flashy ones by themselves, but on trees... I like the unglazed or muted colored pots better almost every time. A light green, cream or a blue that isn't all shiny and new looking fits better on a wider range of trees than one of those wild multi- colored glazes with drippy tie-die looking swirls... A regular old brown unglazed can fit just about any tree, especially any Juniper or pine, and will look better than some eye catching crazy rainbow colored pot! So... I bought a bunch of used unglazed Well- made Japanese pots from a local guy recently. I got a few more flashy ones too... But my goal when buying pots is to use them more as the gram Adair was talking about than the Jewelry our ladies with "Cadillac Tastes" may prefer! .

I guess "utilitarian" would be my style when it comes to pots. I WANT TO BUY all the cool looking ones, but I know I will probably never use them.

Aside- Someone here recently commented in a thread about American potters that they do not make good rectangles... After really looking at a wide range of American made pots, I realized the truth in that comment. The angular, refined antique Japanese pots... The old wedge shaped ones with the windows and the ones with the smoother more rounded lines that are simple elegant, fade to lighter colors in the middle.. There is just nothing like that being made by American potters! Maybe it shows a progression, or a mindset that American potters are artists not craftsmen... But to me, I feel like maybe they would learn a lot and improve a lot if they perfect the classic Bonsai pot first, before moving on to the "artsy" stuff! JMHO. Gorgeous stuff being made in America... Lots of beautiful ART being made by American potters.. I just don't know if I want to plant trees in some of them. I am sure it is possible I "just don't get it" or don't have the trees to over power those pots. Just saying what I feel.

Oh, and just for the record... After all that nonsense, I feel the need to point out that I never said I do not own any pots by American Potters. One of my favorites:
Perhaps I was draft to it because the glaze sort of has that muted quality and makes it resemble a more classical old school pot... Stick root sent me a couple cools ones he made in a trade recently and I bought one from a guy in Asheville I think his name was Adams... Ross Adams? Cool pot, super nice guy... Still wish I had gone back and bought another of his I was eying!

Just thought this thread had too much writing and not enough pot pics! Anybody else got a pic of a favorite to show us?