Collecting. With or without permission?

[leatherback]

God answers all prayers--but sometimes the answer is "no."

Hahah, never heard that one before.

 

[August44]

Last year I got a transplant permit from the Forest Service...$20.00 for 20 tree, 1-4' trees, good from 3/30/18 until 11/30/18. This year I go down to the same office to get my permit and things seem to have changed. The district supervisor now says when the permits can be issued. I couldn't get one this year until yesterday, one month later than last year. The lower elevation trees like larches etc were already past collecting by this time and the snow is still to deep higher up. They also changed the time period of the permit to 14 days...what!! So I collect in different elevations depending on the snow level, so a 14 day window does not work considering the amount of snow that is in higher elevations now. So you have to go down and get another permit for another $20.00 that is good for another 14 days, and I will have to assume that you get 20 more trees, but don't know if these micro mgt people have thought about that part of it yet. I did talk to the district supervisor about all of this and it is very similar to talking to a liberal about why we continue to feed millions of illegals in this country. When you get done with the conversation, you want to just go out and hang yourself! I asked him if this was about making more money, and he said no way. I did mention that he was now at least doubling the work and paper load because of this. More idiotic conversation...these people are brain washed! I'll just collect on "OUR" land and play stupid. The US Govt at it's finest!

 

[rockm]

About 2 years ago before we moved, everyday I would drive past this really steep cliff about 20 ft from the highway going almost vertical - it had about 10 to 15 really old stunted pine trees growing straight out of the rock face. Some were within reach to grab, with a small amount of work. I believe most were loblolly, which are kind of rare to find stunted like they were.

Well every time I passed them I thought man, I need to find out how to collect them. I called around to different offices, nobody could tell me anything and had no idea who I should talk to. After awhile I gave up and was just going to go grab some - Well then just like that, one day out of nowhere a road-side cleanup crew came along and started cutting down all the pine trees along the highway. They had workers repelling down the cliff and just completely cleaned off the rock face and killed all of them.

I should have just collected them when I had the chance.

There is also the issue of safety--for you and those below. In the Blue Ridge mountains where I grew up, there are many rock cliffs along roadways--especially along interstates that have been blasted out of the mountain bedrock. The rock on those cliff faces are unstable. Rock slides are a danger. When I was a kid, one 1/4 mile stretch of interstate over a mountain had a long steep rock face. That cliff dropped rocks on a few cars and killed a couple of people. The state finally installed heavy gauge fencing at the bottom of the cliff to stop rocks from hitting the highway. Some larger stones still find their way onto the road and into cars... If you're up there on the cliff face digging a tree, you are probably going to be a danger to the road below-even if it's 20 feet from the foot of the cliff.

 

[AlainK]

I can't believe a quarter of the people who responded chose "Do it regardless".

Send me their address and if I ever get the chance to be around, I'll visit their property and help myself !

 

[Josh88]

Let's just say three dozen seven foot boxwood with 15 inch trunks would make ALOT of bowls. They're not going to use all of them. I'd be surprised if they used two at the most. I know the guy who is after them for the wood--and yeah, it's only one guy who's going to be using them. Making bowls and wooden stuff from old trees that have fallen down or dug up at historic sites around Va. (and there are many) is his "thing." I have some of his work--he knows what he's doing. Unfortunately, he isn't going to live long enough to make bowls out of all that wood.

I've also heard through the historic site grapevine (yeah, there is one since there are many sites in the area) that the management of this particular public/private site isn't the most forward thinking, so they tend not to think outside the box much (see what I did there? )

Anyway, your point is taken--God answers all prayers--but sometimes the answer is "no." It's a fact of life that is a hard to accept.

Have you chatted with the fellow who is going to make the bowls with them? If he's already made the contact that decides what will become of the trees, perhaps you could make a deal with him? I would imagine he'd be willing to wheel and deal with one or two out of three dozen.

 

[Josh88]

I find that if you are willing to take some chances and make some calls, and be friendly, people are usually friendly in return. I was hiking in a nature preserve in my area and was amazed at the stunted Oregon White Oak throughout the park, and as usual all I could think about was how great they would look in a pot. Using google earth I could see every home and business that surrounds the park, and this included a high school. It took a fair amount of calling around before I was put through to the head of the groundskeeping crew at the school, and he was happy to give me permission to collect whatever I wanted from along the fence line the school shares with the nature preserve. He got quite a kick out of our conversation which was so far out of the ordinary from the complaints he usually has to deal with. On a side note, I find some of the comments here about how "environmentalists" make it hard to get access to trees amusing. The northwest is generally about as liberal and environmentally conscious as anywhere in the country, and we can collect from every state and national forest out here, as long as we follow the guidelines each has established. The whole purpose of our national forests is to regulate the use of our collective resources by the public who owns and accesses it. Regulation does not equal denial, it means making smart choices about using our resources. Every ranger I've ever spoken with at every state and national forest out here has been nothing but helpful in getting me out to safely and ethically dig up some trees.

 

[rockm]

Have you chatted with the fellow who is going to make the bowls with them? If he's already made the contact that decides what will become of the trees, perhaps you could make a deal with him? I would imagine he'd be willing to wheel and deal with one or two out of three dozen.

He is not the guy who has a say in the fate of the trees. The site is allowing him to take a couple certainly not all of them. His work is sold in the site's gift shop and makes money for them. I doubt very much he's going to deal on anything.

 

[rockm]

I find that if you are willing to take some chances and make some calls, and be friendly, people are usually friendly in return. I was hiking in a nature preserve in my area and was amazed at the stunted Oregon White Oak throughout the park, and as usual all I could think about was how great they would look in a pot. Using google earth I could see every home and business that surrounds the park, and this included a high school. It took a fair amount of calling around before I was put through to the head of the groundskeeping crew at the school, and he was happy to give me permission to collect whatever I wanted from along the fence line the school shares with the nature preserve. He got quite a kick out of our conversation which was so far out of the ordinary from the complaints he usually has to deal with. On a side note, I find some of the comments here about how "environmentalists" make it hard to get access to trees amusing. The northwest is generally about as liberal and environmentally conscious as anywhere in the country, and we can collect from every state and national forest out here, as long as we follow the guidelines each has established. The whole purpose of our national forests is to regulate the use of our collective resources by the public who owns and accesses it. Regulation does not equal denial, it means making smart choices about using our resources. Every ranger I've ever spoken with at every state and national forest out here has been nothing but helpful in getting me out to safely and ethically dig up some trees.

I've been a southerner for most of my life, so I'm pretty aware that a little honey goes a lot farther than a jar of vinegar. Thing is, collecting here in the east is not as easy as it is in the Western U.S.

Collecting from historic sites like this plantation triples that difficulty- Restoration politics plays a huge role here. Gunston Hall was George Mason's place...you know, the guy who basically wrote the Bill of Rights. The site is only five or six miles from Mt. Vernon by car., three by a boat on the Potomac. However, it is not all that well visited by tourists because of the "who is George Mason and why should I care" factor--his house, BTW, is MUCH more interesting than Mt.Vernon. the place is looking for ways to draw more visitors. Returning the garden to its "original" (and no one really knows what the "original" looked like. It's a guess) is thought to be a good way to get people to the place.

I've been following the "drama" of the reconstruction of Gunston's boxwood garden. It's been a battle over returning it to its "original" state--traditional formal English garden or leaving it with the original overgrown boxwoods. The arguments over what to do have stretched over three years. It's a sore point for the plantation. I've gone out to the place a couple of times and asked about the boxwood. I have gotten the "GTF outta here" stare from the front desk and a "you're so cute with your little trees" response from others.

Bottom line is that bowls are all that's going to be left of those boxwoods that have been there almost 300 years... It's sad and frustrating.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The site is only five or six miles from Mt. Vernon by car., three by a boat on the Potomac.

Recently at Mt. Vernon an old walnut tree died that had been alive in George Washington's day. They had an auction for the removal, and sold the tree for a lot of $$$. A guy I know made a rocking chair out of some of the wood. It sold for $20,000. I don't know how much he paid for the wood, but it was in the thousands.

 

[rockm]

Recently at Mt. Vernon an old walnut tree died that had been alive in George Washington's day. They had an auction for the removal, and sold the tree for a lot of $$$. A guy I know made a rocking chair out of some of the wood. It sold for $20,000. I don't know how much he paid for the wood, but it was in the thousands.

Mt. Vernon is a privately run site and packs more of a marketing punch than the lesser historical sites around. ANYTHING from Mt. Vernon goes for big bucks. Hell a half pint of the whiskey from the restored distillery on the property goes for between $100 and $200 if you can get it. Only a few of the original "witness" trees at Mt. Vernon planted by G. Washington remain. One is an immense Tulip poplar

 

[Josh88]

I've been a southerner for most of my life, so I'm pretty aware that a little honey goes a lot farther than a jar of vinegar. Thing is, collecting here in the east is not as easy as it is in the Western U.S.

Collecting from historic sites like this plantation triples that difficulty- Restoration politics plays a huge role here. Gunston Hall was George Mason's place...you know, the guy who basically wrote the Bill of Rights. The site is only five or six miles from Mt. Vernon by car., three by a boat on the Potomac. However, it is not all that well visited by tourists because of the "who is George Mason and why should I care" factor--his house, BTW, is MUCH more interesting than Mt.Vernon. the place is looking for ways to draw more visitors. Returning the garden to its "original" (and no one really knows what the "original" looked like. It's a guess) is thought to be a good way to get people to the place.

I've been following the "drama" of the reconstruction of Gunston's boxwood garden. It's been a battle over returning it to its "original" state--traditional formal English garden or leaving it with the original overgrown boxwoods. The arguments over what to do have stretched over three years. It's a sore point for the plantation. I've gone out to the place a couple of times and asked about the boxwood. I have gotten the "GTF outta here" stare from the front desk and a "you're so cute with your little trees" response from others.

Bottom line is that bowls are all that's going to be left of those boxwoods that have been there almost 300 years... It's sad and frustrating.

Sad and frustrating indeed. It's too bad that a few people owning some bowls is the best they can come up with to "preserve" what will be taken down from the property.

 

[a0kalittlema0n]

I think there is a huge disparity on people's opinions on this topic based on information that no one is giving or understanding. I answered just do it regardless, but that isn't my attitude as a whole. I live in an area where a lot of the surrounding land is held onto by random property investors from across the country (nearby we have 700 acres of land) and is continually used by other people as a dump. Once they finally sell the property someone will come in and bulldoze the entire property (and 500 California Junipers that were there...) and build a housing development on it. So yeah, I'll head right on in there and dig a majority of those California Junipers without thinking twice, especially the ones some dune buggy ran over. I also grab some trash on the way out. As a matter of fact, the less junipers on your piece of land the more it goes for as it requires less dumping and typically less grading. If you show up on the right day you can just haul off a semi truck load of uprooted junipers.

Do I do the same thing in the Los Angeles National Forest? Absolutely not. Do I steal trees from people's .5 acre lots with a house on it? No. Do I ask permission in the walgreens parking lot to take an ugly juniper, yes.

Someone from the east coast where things have been there forever and history is a large part of almost everything there would have a completely different life experience. This is what everyone is discounting and not explaining.

 

[karlsplants]

Reading all this I was wondering does anyone use a written permission form. If so can you give a example one or list what to include on this form?

 

[karlsplants]

Does anyone have an example of what they use for permission form?

 

[rockm]

Does anyone have an example of what they use for permission form?

This depends on the location you're considering, public--state owned, federally owned or private property--Federal and state lands All have different policies on allowing collection and permission types. Private land is up to you asking the land owner if you can dig on their property.

It's not an easy or uniform process and there is no simple answer to your question.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It's not an easy or uniform process and there is no simple answer to your question.

As an example, one place I go to check for trees is under utility transmission lines. They come through every three years and spray herbicide on any trees, and sometimes come through with a brush hog to chop what's left. Needless to say they don't want trees growing under the transmission lines... but getting formal permission from the utility to go dig up what they are planning on killing... I don't have the slightest clue who I would contact.

 

[RJG2]

As an example, one place I go to check for trees is under utility transmission lines. They come through every three years and spray herbicide on any trees, and sometimes come through with a brush hog to chop what's left. Needless to say they don't want trees growing under the transmission lines... but getting formal permission from the utility to go dig up what they are planning on killing... I don't have the slightest clue who I would contact.

Funny story: I was at Colin Lewis's house one day, and he mentioned utility lines. He said find the phone number on one of the poles, call it and have a short conversation, then if anyone asks you can say "look, I called and they said it was no problem."

 

[DanaWhicker]

As an example, one place I go to check for trees is under utility transmission lines. They come through every three years and spray herbicide on any trees, and sometimes come through with a brush hog to chop what's left. Needless to say they don't want trees growing under the transmission lines... but getting formal permission from the utility to go dig up what they are planning on killing... I don't have the slightest clue who I would contact.

Bnut, I work for a local gubment agency that includes a utilty. They don't care if you dig up those trees. Trust me. But they would care if you cut any of those pesky wires that might be running under/in the root ball.

 

[Shogun610]

Get caught and you will soon find out just how much power they have over you. And yes, even as a native.




Will

Oooh wait anyone know what this dude was banned?

 

[Shogun610]

As an example, one place I go to check for trees is under utility transmission lines. They come through every three years and spray herbicide on any trees, and sometimes come through with a brush hog to chop what's left. Needless to say they don't want trees growing under the transmission lines... but getting formal permission from the utility to go dig up what they are planning on killing... I don't have the slightest clue who I would contact.

Is it safe to collect near power lines and or areas where they spray pesticides and herbicide ? Not trying to grow a third nut.