Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

Walter Pall

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case : If 2 identical raw materials in the same stage (well balance nebari, superb thick trunk link, desired thickness of branches from the trunk, no scar), i do not think anyone, not even Walter himself will cont to use the hedge pruning anymore.

regards,
toto

Wrong! I use the HPM also on VERY good 'finished' trees. I have found that I can achieve amazing improvments with this method even on big show prize winners. I have not pinched any broadleaved tree in ten years.

My Croatinan student's famous trees with a few exceptions have never been pinched and win awartds left and right.
 

Walter Pall

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I still forgot another important point:

For a big maple most folks would take a full morning or more to carefully pinch and edit it in spring soon after bud break. I use large hedge shear and cut the whole tree within three to maximum five minutes I cut many branches all at once - well, like a hedge - this is where it has the name from.This is six to eight weeks after bud break. No kidding. This is a very considerable time saver if one has hundreds of trees and no help.
Many think that this really is the main reason for Walter because he has way too many trees and is lazy. Well, if pinching were superior I would spend all the time it takes for every single tree. So this i definitely not a main reason but a very welcome side effect.
 

Igor. T. Ljubek

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Thank you for your replies. I have some more questions for Mr. Pall and all other users on this forum:

1. What method do you use for a trunk chopped trees collected from nature? Usually we collect these trees with just a few branches and buds (sometimes less then 3). I guess you can't apply HPM to a trees that don't have a certain amount of branches or a shape to a certain extent? So what method do you use for a trees in very early stage, with less then 10 or 15 branches? Neither HPM, nor pinching seems a good option here. I usually let them grow and prune only in late winter, until i get more compact shape on the canopy.

2. Also is it possible or advisable to do a partial HPM? For example: I want to thicken one particular, very tiny branch. Is it ok to let that branch fully grow for a 3 or 4 years while doing HPM on all other part of the tree?

3. And the last and most important one: are you sure that HPM doesn't shorten life expectancy of bonsai trees? I've heard that some bonsai trees can live hundreds of years. I don't want my trees to die after 20 or 30 years in bonsai pots just because repeatedly performing a HPM could potentially weaken them too much in the long run? Or vice versa, that HPM increases life expectancy of bonsai trees?
 

Igor. T. Ljubek

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Igor,

1)what you do is fine
2) yes, sure, I often only cut the top and leave the lower branches long - looks strange
3) I am pretty sure thet with my method ttees are much happier and may live longer
Thank you very much :)
 
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Wrong! I use the HPM also on VERY good 'finished' trees. I have found that I can achieve amazing improvments with this method even on big show prize winners. I have not pinched any broadleaved tree in ten years.

My Croatinan student's famous trees with a few exceptions have never been pinched and win awartds left and right.

cool, congrats for winning awards. i need to learn more on this. is there a link for me to learn on this showing how to hedge finished tree? hedge seems a strong word for a refine finished tree...sounds like random bold rough outer layer "cut/trim". No offence but i would use the word trim or cut or remove for finished tree for better control and avoid misconception for others, less confuse, which i was earlier or even now. lol

I think my understanding on this thread is wrong from the start.. its between hedge and pinched is it, which you emphasize more? Initially i thought hedge vs carefully selected branch. i guess i'm wrong, and its more on control towards the end result(pinched) vs hedge pruning(also applicable for refine work on finished tree)

anyways, hedge pruning is a useful method(i myself use it on certain species) combine with the traditional way. works wonder.

cheers.
 

Smoke

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, at least how I understand it,

See,,,this is a problem, and like so many on discussion forums, everyone has a opinion whether they have used the method or not. I don't mean "tried" it, I mean "use the method". Do it to your tree for a couple years. Figure out some tweaks on your own. Maybe one can improve it if it were embraced rather than treated like pruning boxwood hedges. It's just a word people, the science is no different. I have no idea why this is so hard for people to embrace or even give it a shot.
 

LanceMac10

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See,,,this is a problem, and like so many on discussion forums, everyone has a opinion whether they have used the method or not. I don't mean "tried" it, I mean "use the method". Do it to your tree for a couple years. Figure out some tweaks on your own. Maybe one can improve it if it were embraced rather than treated like pruning boxwood hedges. It's just a word people, the science is no different. I have no idea why this is so hard for people to embrace or even give it a shot.



California Bonsai Art II? Can't wait to dive in to the "expanded" bonsai bunker!!! In my experience, pinching initial buds will give you the nice small leaves on a Japanese Maple. I did notice, however, that the tree will not grow for the rest of the season.
 

sorce

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See,,,this is a problem, and like so many on discussion forums, everyone has a opinion whether they have used the method or not. I don't mean "tried" it, I mean "use the method". Do it to your tree for a couple years. Figure out some tweaks on your own. Maybe one can improve it if it were embraced rather than treated like pruning boxwood hedges. It's just a word people, the science is no different. I have no idea why this is so hard for people to embrace or even give it a shot.

C'mon! I thought we were going to go somewhere else!
I've been realizing I only argue with Narciccists, and people who are just like me, I still believe you are just like me. I know it in fact.

I have tried it, and was happy with the results last year, but curved my use of it this spring, since I made observations to determine that course of action.

The point .of...as I understand it...

Is that it does both...and it does....allows for "developmental" health, and "refinement" in the same year.
Most of this context is in dudes query.

But more importantly, "refinement" "development", buzz words people use to feel important.

So I don't care either way!

With all respect always Al.

Sorce
 

Joe Dupre'

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Just to give a little more credit to the Walter Pall method. White mulberry .......4 months from a collected stump this year ( albeit a really nice stump). 50/50 DE and pine bark. Double strength Miracle Gro on the 1st and 15th of every month of the growing season. Watered HEAVILY , top and bottom every day. Hedge pruned about 3 weeks ago. Not saying it's anywhere near finished , but I feel it is as develeped as much as some trees by other methods that are years older.

unnamed - 2020-05-29T120149.139.jpg
 

Adair M

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California Bonsai Art II? Can't wait to dive in to the "expanded" bonsai bunker!!! In my experience, pinching initial buds will give you the nice small leaves on a Japanese Maple. I did notice, however, that the tree will not grow for the rest of the season.
That depends on the cultivar of the Japanese Maple. Some won’t grow any more if you pinch them, some will pop new shoots from the bases of the petioles of the two first leaves.

It depends...
 

LanceMac10

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Sure. Could be many contributing factors i.e. not vigorous enough for the procedure, poor aftercare, incorrect application of technique, etc....

In Bill V.'s latest book, Classical Bonsai Art, he did mention in the section on Maple training.."The resulting foliage from this type of bud pinching will be small and compact. If correctly done, the tree will not produce any more shoots during the growing season"

I'd say 90% of Maples shown here are a long trip from pinching....the technique shouldn't be in most peoples minds with young material.
 
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JudyB

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See,,,this is a problem, and like so many on discussion forums, everyone has a opinion whether they have used the method or not. I don't mean "tried" it, I mean "use the method". Do it to your tree for a couple years. Figure out some tweaks on your own. Maybe one can improve it if it were embraced rather than treated like pruning boxwood hedges. It's just a word people, the science is no different. I have no idea why this is so hard for people to embrace or even give it a shot.
Seriously, it's been on the beatdown since years ago on the IBC... I think that it's become like a soil thread. Try it or not, but if you don't try, how can you have an opinion about it.
 

JudyB

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Just to give a little more credit to the Walter Pall method. White mulberry .......4 months from a collected stump this year ( albeit a really nice stump). 50/50 DE and pine bark. Double strength Miracle Gro on the 1st and 15th of every month of the growing season. Watered HEAVILY , top and bottom every day. Hedge pruned about 3 weeks ago. Not saying it's anywhere near finished , but I feel it is as develeped as much as some trees by other methods that are years older.

View attachment 305852
Nice mulberry!
 

Smoke

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Is that it does both...and it does....allows for "developmental" health, and "refinement" in the same year.
How do you know this? Did you do it for say five years? How can you possibly know anything after a year. In my own case I don't really start to see really great measurable results till after three years. It takes me that long just to build an armature.
California Bonsai Art II? Can't wait to dive in to the "expanded" bonsai bunker!!! In my experience, pinching initial buds will give you the nice small leaves on a Japanese Maple. I did notice, however, that the tree will not grow for the rest of the season.
Actually since I started that page, I purchased a new computer. Still working the kinks out of that. Making disks of all my pictures on the old computer, to transfer to the new computer. Could just do it with a cable, but last time I did that I lost the whole shooting match so I want to have at least what I have thru half of 2020 on a disk now. Almost all the pictures I posted to bonsaiTALK are gone. I was able to retrieve a few while the site was puking, but for the most part...gone. Since the site will be only work related it will require me to do "work" which I have not done much in the last 60 days. I have been taking pictures and have them ready to go, and there has been some work, but not much. Stuff like re potting, major pruning, and building trees from cuttings and layers will happen as I take them off parent plants, which I have three ready to post soon. A lot of people think running a blog is easy but it's a lot of work if done correctly. It's like this thread, no one is showing much work as to what they are doing to their trees. I am shocked at the amount of people that do not think for themselves when it come to bonsai. This is gardening pure and simple. people get hung up on words and make it all angry and stuff. If you can grow roses you can grow bonsai. If you can prune topiary, you can prune bonsai. If you can prune a hedge, you can prune a bonsai. The difference between pruning a hedge and pruning bonsai is that if you can cut a straight line you can trim a hedge, but if you have no talent nor artistic ability, then bonsai is going to be difficult whether you prune or hedge. I see that here a lot.

I have been sitting around and doing a lot of watching on Youtube of painters and acrylic painting. I have watched so many that I started getting the idea that it was easy. This looks simple enough.

1590787229828.png

I make bonsai, I make diaza for stones, I make stands, and picture frames and all sorts of artsy stuff with my hands. Hey, this seems easy enough, I'm going to get some paints and some canvas and do some painting. If you follow me on FB then you saw the picture I posted of my first painting. This was tremendously hard for me. Not as easy as it looked at all! I wanted a mountain and a road and some mixture of trees. It looks like a fifth grader painted this picture. I'm not proud. This is beginner quality, as it should be. I'm not going to stop, I'm going to get better. Why? because I'm going to practice. A lot!

1590787445369.png
My point.....there is no way I'm going to go sign up on a painting discussion forum and start throwing my weight around about how great a painter I am, which pallet paper is best, badger hair brushes over boar hair. I don't know shit, and I don't profess to know shit. That is why I won't talk about painting like I know something. My next point..let your trees do the talking for you. You want to get into the frey and talk shit about something, post up a tree that you are super proud of, that probably no one will comment on, that's how I know their good, when the best artists have nothing to say about your work.... Let the tree speak of your skills and what you have found that works well. If you don't want to hedge a tree or use that part of the bag of tricks, then don't use it. But why do people find it necessary to disparage those that have had success?

I don't read people talking shit about selective pruning, pinching or clip and grow? Post up your trees with those sorts of pruning sessions and tell me how long you been working on it, then some others can show different methods and how long they have been working and maybe a consensus can be reached. Thats how you solve a discussion....with proof, as in pictures...anything less is just talkin shit....
 

Smoke

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California Bonsai Art II? Can't wait to dive in to the "expanded" bonsai bunker!!! In my experience, pinching initial buds will give you the nice small leaves on a Japanese Maple. I did notice, however, that the tree will not grow for the rest of the season.
I don't care which method you use in New Hampshire, that region is only going to do so much horticulturally.

You grow oranges there?

Thats the difference......
 

Palltergeist

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Even if you can achieve similar results with traditional methods the HPM is about three times faster or more.

You keep referring to “traditional methods”. Can you please specify what you’re referring to?

You often refer to “traditional methods”, but whenever you go into any detail it sounds like you’re only referring to “pinching”.

Is this Hedge Pruning V.S. Pinching? Or is this Hedge Pruning V.S. The entire Japanese repetoire of techniques?
 
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