Big box bonsai mix

[Woocash]

LECA is amazing stuff and pretty cheap...

I must admit, we used to use Leca as a top dressing for indoor plants in my old job (actually, we were told to use general purpose compost for the plants, with no drainage holes, in offices and suchlike so I used to shove a load of Leca in the bottom, then make a 50/50 mix of Leca and compost, then top dress with Leca. Funnily enough plant survival rates increased dramatically). I have wondered why I don’t see it commonly used for bonsai. It comes in various grain sizes and as an expanded clay it really holds it’s form for years and years. Any ideas people?

 

[eryk2kartman]

Nigel Saunders uses ratio 50/50 - perlite and turface,
All his trees looks fabulous.....
That's my 2 cents
Myself - i used cat litter and perlite- 50/50, sometimes i add some organic material(sifted pine bark) for trees that like a lot of moisture, no complains so far, cheap and effective!

 

[peterbone]

Has anyone considered baking their own clay? I live in an area where the soil is basically clay. I could collect some and spread it out on a tray. Then either put it in the oven or build a fire and bake it. Then it's just a matter of smashing it up and sieving.

 

[leatherback]

I must admit, we used to use Leca as a top dressing for indoor plants in my old job (actually, we were told to use general purpose compost for the plants, with no drainage holes, in offices and suchlike so I used to shove a load of Leca in the bottom, then make a 50/50 mix of Leca and compost, then top dress with Leca. Funnily enough plant survival rates increased dramatically). I have wondered why I don’t see it commonly used for bonsai. It comes in various grain sizes and as an expanded clay it really holds it’s form for years and years. Any ideas people?

I think this is the same stuff i use as core of my sibstrate tbh

 

[Eckhoffw]

OilDri download page

www.oildri.net

It's some type of clay. Based on extensive advice I've gotten here I'd stay away. Try NAPA product #8822. It's only $10 a bag for 6 gallons.

Yeah. I planned on going to get 8822 some time.
When I was At menards for some other things I saw this 25lb bag for 5$ so I grabbed it. I’ll take your advice And just use it for the many uses it states on the bag and get that 8822
For the plants.

 

[PABonsai]

Yeah. I planned on going to get 8822 some time.
When I was At menards for some other things I saw this 25lb bag for 5$ so I grabbed it. I’ll take your advice And just use it for the many uses it states on the bag and get that 8822
For the plants.

I mean. I bet it dries oil great.

 

[Minnesota Madman]

Ok, so re-up on the big box bonsai mix.
Thinking about 40% lava ,( 5$) 40% oil dry,(4$) 20% pine bark (5$).
I have screened ingredients to approximately 1/4” to 3/8”.
Yield approximately 8 gals. + 4 gals. Screened out.
I haven’t mixed it up yet.
Seem ok for a general mix?
Thanks. View attachment 265036Hey View attachment 265041View attachment 265042View attachment 265043

That is looking real nice! It has taken me years of soil no-no's (and no internet) to get to where you are at right now. I'm on my 5th growing season of bonsai, and I finally sprung for lava, and also got myself some diatomaceous earth to round out my options for mixing substrates, and I spent a grip of time on pine bark this summer, which I feel pretty good about. Even though a bag of bark is like $4, my dad had a pine come down in the yard, so I nabbed the bark and ran it through the chipper and sifted, chipper/sifter, chipper/sifter multiple times. From 4 firewood lengths of pine tree and many hours of my time, I got 6 gallons of sifted bark. Your ratio sounds good. Should still allow you to go out of town for the weekend or miss a day of watering without getting too dry, but not hold excessive amounts of water.

 

[TN_Jim]

Every tree/plant will be different even if the same species. This is true even in a controlled setting.

Where it is at, how big is, container type and size, amount of direct/indirect light, accessibility it has to birds and other animals even on same bench, under tree ((?) what part?...what is falling from that tree??...pollen..frass?), wind (from which side/how far), shade -filtered light or non (what degree?)....................................................

How I water, feed, and chop on each one seems pretty dynamically important to all of these factors.

Regarding soil mix, inorganic/organic components (whatever recipe) allows anyone to see first hand how a plant responds. The biggest thing for me seems how I water individually, not uniformly, based on individual plants and trees. There is something to balance of water/oxygen/nutrients/surroundings/weather///, location...

I think thats why folks want a Nigel mix or a Boon mix like a Betty Crocker cure all, now let’s make some damn popcorn!

I know plants some, but man did I fight the notion of pure inorganic soil even after it made sense...but I find more it’s not the mix(s) but rather what each one is doing, how I’m responding, and why or why not.

 

[Smoke]

I know plants some, but man did I fight the notion of pure inorganic soil even after it made sense...

The whole notion of bonsai will improve for you when you become a leader and not so much a follower......

 

[TN_Jim]

The whole notion of bonsai will improve for you when you become a leader and not so much a follower......

I follow what I understand first hand botanically, what I seek to strive toward regarding art, and my lack of experience in bonsai across the board...

There is a difference in art, botany, and time and I attempt to declare my inexperience in all three +. Not knowing anything other than my circumstances right now in my back yard, I make choices and try to learn from others.

If lead or follow is the duelistic choices, I’m going to keep doing the same and let others make their mind up regardless of me as I try to have healthy plants and maybe some decent trees.
Thanks

 

[Minnesota Madman]

I follow what I understand first hand botanically, what I seek to strive toward regarding art, and my lack of experience in bonsai across the board...

There is a difference in art, botany, and time and I attempt to declare my inexperience in all three +. Not knowing anything other than my circumstances right now in my back yard, I make choices and try to learn from others.

If lead or follow is the duelistic choices, I’m going to keep doing the same and let others make their mind up regardless of me as I try to have healthy plants and maybe some decent trees.
Thanks

Well spoken

 

[Smoke]

I follow what I understand first hand botanically,

well...thats not what you said...

 

[TN_Jim]

well...thats not what you said...

I’m not sure what you are referring to or how anything relates to lead or follow.

I typically use some ratio of de,sifted pine, and pumice or lava. Sometimes no pumice or lava. These choices are species specific.

However, I’ve found that more important than mix is how trees are treated individually with regard to an array of factors, most importantly watering.

One mix may work for someone and not someone else, it’s how things are treated and observed on a constant individual level -these other factors are vital, and a large part of why soil threads seem so contentious.

Please elaborate on what you understand to be right/wrong with these or aforementioned assertions -I do not presently understand your comments.

 

[Smoke]

I know plants some, but man did I fight* the notion of pure inorganic soil even after it made sense...

Why the fight*. Do whats right in your head. You are allowing the thoughts of others prejudge what you know to be sound. That in a nutshell is why I have Adair on ignore. I am sick and tired of being preached to. I will do bonsai as "I" see fit. If I wish to cut my wire off. I will. If I wish to repot a pine and do the WHOLE rootball I will. I repeat, be a leader not a follower.

 

[parhamr]

All his trees looks fabulous

This isn’t a dig specifically at him, but I don’t agree with this. He has a lot of branch loss and weak growths. His tropicals look great, but some of his deciduous and conifers have been lackluster. He has lost a fair number of trees.

That said, some of the above is from his harsh winter and subpar overwintering system.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

This isn’t a dig specifically at him, but I don’t agree with this. He has a lot of branch loss and weak growths. His tropicals look great, but some of his deciduous and conifers have been lackluster. He has lost a fair number of trees.

That said, some of the above is from his harsh winter and subpar overwintering system.

I agree with this, even though I watch all his videos. He's a swell awkward guy and I appreciate his blue collar approach. I blame it on his harsh winters and late springs as well.

 

[TN_Jim]

Why the fight*. Do whats right in your head. You are allowing the thoughts of others prejudge what you know to be sound. That in a nutshell is why I have Adair on ignore. I am sick and tired of being preached to. I will do bonsai as "I" see fit. If I wish to cut my wire off. I will. If I wish to repot a pine and do the WHOLE rootball I will. I repeat, be a leader not a follower.

The fight (past tense) was when I first began bonsai not accepting the relative soil doctrine you and I follow to some degree based on my experience...I never took or taught bonsai 101. Our understanding of botany seems a bit different. I was not taught to teach bonsai soil to you and you are not a leader because you are willing to experiment nor am I.

Honestly, you’ve helped me wrap my mind some things I greatly appreciate and thank you for, but sharing information and experience does not make anyone a leader.

 

[just.wing.it]

The fight (past tense) was when I first began bonsai not accepting the relative soil doctrine you and I follow to some degree based on my experience...I never took or taught bonsai 101. Our understanding of botany seems a bit different. I was not taught to teach bonsai soil to you and you are not a leader because you are willing to experiment nor am I.

Honestly, you’ve helped me wrap my mind some things I greatly appreciate and thank you for, but sharing information and experience does not make anyone a leader.

Dont leaders have followers?

Maybe renegade is better.....

You don't need followers to be a renegade.....nor friendly demeanor.


Smoke is a renegade bonsai artist and stand maker.

 

[Woocash]

That also suggests that leaders want followers. How about just being yourself rather than having to refer to some sort of imaginary social hierarchy?

Anyway, taking on board the comments in another thread of staying on point and not bringing the size of your codpiece into it... (ironic)

I have been using sophisticat pink (clay moler) and melcourt potting bark at a ratio of 50/50 for my collected stuff which I will reduce down to 80/20 or so when repotting after recovery. I am determined not to spend gazillions on soil imported from around the world. That just seems crazy to me, but not having a vast variety of local alternatives, what is the benefit of a combo of 8822 and lava for example? Why not just 8822 or lava?

 

[PABonsai]

what is the benefit of a combo of 8822 and lava for example? Why not just 8822 or lava?

From what I have read the 8822 acts like Akadama absorbing water for the plant to use while lava is like granite or stone in allowing drainage while not absorbing a lot. According to Colin Lewis it would take hours to fully wet lava rock.