Big box bonsai mix

Eckhoffw

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Hello,
I’m working on making a inexpensive bonsai mix soil out of items I can grab at the big box stores in my area.
So far I’ve got some:
red lave rock I’ve crushed and sifted to around 1/4”
Some sphagnum moss shredded fine
Wood chips at around 1/2”
Sand.
Thinking out mixing these up in a ratio that seams right.

Any recommendations as to how to tweak this mix / add to subtract, ratio, would be much appreciated!
Using it for mostly spruce , pine , yew, junipers . A few leafy varieties.
Thanks you.
 

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Do a search on the forum. There are many threads on the subject and a long list of verbal casualties.

Sand is a bad idea. Get something coarser. I sift things to be mainly in the 2-5mm / 1/10 - 1/5 inch sizes.

Now where is my popcorn..
 
Seems like a lot of effort for what will be a poor soil. Crushing lava! No thank you. More power to you though. One big thing to remember is that you want a uniform particle size. So your lava, wood chips, and sand are all very different sized particles. What will end up happening, especially after chop sticking, is that your largest particles will mostly rise to the top of your soil and your smallest particles will mostly sink to the bottom. So what you will end up with is a lot of wood chips near the surface of your soil, a lot of lava in the middle and a lot of that fine sand at the bottom of your pot. The top of your soil will be dry constantly and the bottom of your pot will be constantly too wet. What you should do IMHO is get rid of your wood chips, get pine bark instead, sift that to 1/4 inch, the same size as your lava. Take that sand and put it in a sand box and leave it there. I once put sand in a mix and almost killed a juniper. It held to much water and was like cement in the pot almost. Trying to save you that headache! Don’t put the Sphagnum in your soil, but apply it to the surface as a top dressing. Now with 1/4 lava and pine bark you’re off to a good start. You may consider adding more components, but keep your particle size consistent at 1/4 inch.
 
Your fine moss looks like peat moss not sphagnum moss. What's the difference? Sphagnum moss is harvested live, then baled and dried. It is usually a straw color. Peat moss is different. It starts out as live sphagnum moss, dies, settles to the bottom of a pond, decomposes slowly for one or two centuries, maybe more. Then the bog dries out, and it is harvested. So the difference between peat and sphagnum is a couple hundred years. Peat is usually ground up and baled for sale, so a bale of peat is all very fine particles, making it very bad for bonsai. There are only a few situations where you would use peat moss. If you chopped up long fiber sphagnum, you chopped it too fine. Leave it mostly 1/4 to 1/2 inch particles. Too fine a chop and it will block the air voids in your mix.

Find a hydroponics store near you, the marijuana growers will have good materials for bonsai mixes on had.

Best main ingredient for a bonsai mix is pumice. If you can't find pumice - perlite is not too bad, though it is very light. A hydroponics store will carry the coarser grades of perlite, where average particle will be between 1/8 and 1/4 inch diameter, or the coarse which will be between 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter for large trees. Perlite is excellent for a "grow out and size up mix", in that in large containers it poses no unusual problems. In very shallow containers, less than 1 inch deep it tends to float away. Top with a layer of long fiber sphagnum moss (the harvested fresh kind). and this will hold the perlite in place.

The crushed red lava is fine. Sift to eliminate fines.

Wood chips - the normal preferred ingredient is bark chips. Bark decays more slowly. Wood chips should never be more than 5 % of a mix or you may have problems with snow mold, and or wood decomposing fungi that are not also mycorrhizal. A little wood is fine to feed the mycorrhiza, but too much encourages the wood eating fungi that are not mycorrhizal, some can potentially become pathogenic. Orchid bark is a better choice. In the Minneapolis Area, Ordids Unlimited in Plymouth sells douglas fir bark in 2 or 3 sizes, the seedling grade is perfect for a bonsai mix. They probably have coarse perlite, horticultural charcoal, and maybe radiata bark, bark from the radiata pine - an equally good but somewhat different than fir bark, it lasts much longer.

The hydroponics stores will have fired or calcined clay products similar to Turface but in better size range for bonsai. They may even have pumice and lava. If you are going to go with locally sourced materials, or at least local store locations. Do hit your hydroponics growers.

At your farm supply stores, look for crushed quartzite, from New Ulm Minnesota - called Cherry Stone. Used as grit for chickens and turkeys. Best sizes for a bonsai mix are Grower, Layer and Turkey grit. with Turkey being the most coarse. Don't use more than 25 % in a mix because it will get heavy quickly and because it holds no water. It is essentially a inert gravel. But Cherry stone is a nice color. These days I don't use it in my mix, I use it as a top dressing to hide less attractive media below it. Then add some moss and you are ready for a show.
 
I am a pumice fan too but I do love perlite for young potted stock. As stated, perlite is light so it has a tendency to float so to the top but a good aggregate still. you would want to cover it with top dressing as the bright white isn’t great cosmetically. As for something else to add I would go to Napa auto parts and get part number 8822 and do a 50-50 mix. It will work pretty good but again will not look good at all.
 
If you do go perlite. Home Depot has 2 cu bags of perlite Vigoro brand for $16. From one bag I got like 7 gallons of useable size and an extra like 2-3 gallons of +1/4" size. I was pretty happy with that yield for $16. I checked out some horticultural perlite and that stuff is maybe around 1/16". That stuff was too small.
 
I use Crushed LECA "Lightweight expanded clay aggregate", Real Peat moss (Not Coco Coir) and Pine Bark chips as my own mix. Works great for me.
50% Crushed LECA, 25% Peat and 25% Bark chips. Hot and dry were i live so i need water retention that drains well. Can Adjust to your needs.

LECA is amazing stuff and pretty cheap... #JustSaying.

However reading the above not sure how good my mix is now :eek:😢 hmmmmm...
 

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Do a search on the forum. There are many threads on the subject and a long list of verbal casualties.

Sand is a bad idea. Get something coarser. I sift things to be mainly in the 2-5mm / 1/10 - 1/5 inch sizes.

Now where is my popcorn..
Thanks for your advise!
Yeah I figured the sand was probably a no go.
Threw it in the horse shoe pits.
 
Your fine moss looks like peat moss not sphagnum moss. What's the difference? Sphagnum moss is harvested live, then baled and dried. It is usually a straw color. Peat moss is different. It starts out as live sphagnum moss, dies, settles to the bottom of a pond, decomposes slowly for one or two centuries, maybe more. Then the bog dries out, and it is harvested. So the difference between peat and sphagnum is a couple hundred years. Peat is usually ground up and baled for sale, so a bale of peat is all very fine particles, making it very bad for bonsai. There are only a few situations where you would use peat moss. If you chopped up long fiber sphagnum, you chopped it too fine. Leave it mostly 1/4 to 1/2 inch particles. Too fine a chop and it will block the air voids in your mix.

Find a hydroponics store near you, the marijuana growers will have good materials for bonsai mixes on had.

Best main ingredient for a bonsai mix is pumice. If you can't find pumice - perlite is not too bad, though it is very light. A hydroponics store will carry the coarser grades of perlite, where average particle will be between 1/8 and 1/4 inch diameter, or the coarse which will be between 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter for large trees. Perlite is excellent for a "grow out and size up mix", in that in large containers it poses no unusual problems. In very shallow containers, less than 1 inch deep it tends to float away. Top with a layer of long fiber sphagnum moss (the harvested fresh kind). and this will hold the perlite in place.

The crushed red lava is fine. Sift to eliminate fines.

Wood chips - the normal preferred ingredient is bark chips. Bark decays more slowly. Wood chips should never be more than 5 % of a mix or you may have problems with snow mold, and or wood decomposing fungi that are not also mycorrhizal. A little wood is fine to feed the mycorrhiza, but too much encourages the wood eating fungi that are not mycorrhizal, some can potentially become pathogenic. Orchid bark is a better choice. In the Minneapolis Area, Ordids Unlimited in Plymouth sells douglas fir bark in 2 or 3 sizes, the seedling grade is perfect for a bonsai mix. They probably have coarse perlite, horticultural charcoal, and maybe radiata bark, bark from the radiata pine - an equally good but somewhat different than fir bark, it lasts much longer.

The hydroponics stores will have fired or calcined clay products similar to Turface but in better size range for bonsai. They may even have pumice and lava. If you are going to go with locally sourced materials, or at least local store locations. Do hit your hydroponics growers.

At your farm supply stores, look for crushed quartzite, from New Ulm Minnesota - called Cherry Stone. Used as grit for chickens and turkeys. Best sizes for a bonsai mix are Grower, Layer and Turkey grit. with Turkey being the most coarse. Don't use more than 25 % in a mix because it will get heavy quickly and because it holds no water. It is essentially a inert gravel. But Cherry stone is a nice color. These days I don't use it in my mix, I use it as a top dressing to hide less attractive media below it. Then add some moss and you are ready for a show.
Leo, again thanks so much for your in depth reply. You are the man!
 
After getting advice from Leo a little while back I decided I myself will try a grow box mix of perlite, pine bark and Napa 8822. And I will replace the perlite with grit in a bonsai pot.

I have rationalized that those cheap materials should work for growing out. But perlite seems to not be ideal for the final bonsai pot mix, so I plan to replace it with grit because grit is heavier and would look better. The 8822 should work well in both because it's in the middle weight wise, so it is a compromise. To me that seems like a logical way to go from one to the other and have two that work but are both cheap and similar enough.

I can get 2 cf perlite for $16, 2 cf bark fines for $5 and the grit is (2) 25 lb bags @ $9 each at our Tractor Supply and those quantities give me almost 14 gallons of soil.

I did my first ever repotting two days ago, and I used grit, bark and 8822.

This is what I would recommend because I believe these materials are probably available everywhere. No thanks to crushing my own lava!
 
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If you do go perlite. Home Depot has 2 cu bags of perlite Vigoro brand for $16. From one bag I got like 7 gallons of useable size and an extra like 2-3 gallons of +1/4" size. I was pretty happy with that yield for $16. I checked out some horticultural perlite and that stuff is maybe around 1/16". That stuff was too small.
Thanks man, yeah I do have some course perlite. I Dont know why I didn’t think ofusing some of that. 👍
 
Thanks man, yeah I do have some course perlite. I Dont know why I didn’t think ofusing some of that. 👍
As far as particle sizes too, I am not like some of these guys with a bunch of sieves. I just have the $14 Bonsai Outlet set with #4, #5 and #10 sieves and I basically keep everything between #5 and #10 for minerals and with bark I'll keep between #4 and #10 to allow larger particle size. I will keep any minerals larger just because in the future it might be useful for a larger tree.
 
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After getting advice from Leo a little while back I decided I myself will try a grow box mix of perlite, pine bark and Napa 8822. And I will replace the perlite with grit in a bonsai pot.

I have rationalized that those cheap materials should work for growing out. But perlite seems to not be ideal for the final bonsai pot mix, so I plan to replace it with grit because grit is heavier and would look better. The 8822 should work well in both because it's in the middle weight wise, so it is a compromise. To me that seems like a logical way to go from one to the other and have two that work but are both cheap and similar enough.

I can get 2 cf perlite for $16, 2 cf bark fines for $5 and the grit is (2) 25 lb bags @ $9 each at our Tractor Supply and those quantities give me almost 14 gallons of soil.

I did my first ever repotting two days ago, and I used grit, bark and 8822.

This is what I would recommend because I believe these materials are probably available everywhere. No thanks to crushing my own lava!
Haha yeah. The lave crushing wasnt so bad after wrapping the bag in a tarp and running it over a bit! 😁
As far as particle sizes too, I am not like some of these guys with a bunch of sieves. I just have the $14 Bonsai Outlet set with #4, #5 and #10 sieves and I basically keep everything between #5 and #10 for minerals and with bark I'll keep between #4 and #10 to allow larger particle size. I will keep any minerals larger just because in the future it might be useful for a larger tree.
Very good to know. I’ll look into that sieve set.
Thanks again!
 
Ordered that sieve set. Thanks for the link!
That's awesome. You're welcome, glad I could be of help. It is nicer than trying to make screens and stuff cause I have no clue where to find all the various screening in actual standard sizes. And I don't see why some of these are like $40-50 for a little bit of screen and a metal hoop. I hope you like them. So far I love them.
 
Ok, so re-up on the big box bonsai mix.
Thinking about 40% lava ,( 5$) 40% oil dry,(4$) 20% pine bark (5$).
I have screened ingredients to approximately 1/4” to 3/8”.
Yield approximately 8 gals. + 4 gals. Screened out.
I haven’t mixed it up yet.
Seem ok for a general mix?
Thanks. FAD8D5F4-33D9-4715-BEC0-EDBFB21515F5.jpegHey 24B5134A-9BA4-4439-87E9-A8BF3F173CA1.jpeg150E35C3-1494-4C5B-A459-00CCD0D3FB13.jpeg5190CA5C-3CE6-42A8-8093-FD2C418992FA.jpeg
 

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Looks like you’re onto something, but what the hell is oil dry? If it is not fired diatomaceous earth I’d tred lightly.

Perhaps leave some in a glass of water overnight, and if it turns to mush with little pressure, ditch it
 
I guess it’s fired clay
Says it doesn’t much and is not dusty.
However I did sift out at least 1/3 of It.
But yeah I think I will do a soak test.
Thanks.
 
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