Are you a Parrot?

My idea of Sunday morning fun is poking at hornets nests.
Looks like I got one riled up first thing.

Good morning drones.

Congratulations. Mission accomplished.

I've come to the conclusion that time spent reading your posts is time wasted, so I won't be doing it anymore. Have fun poking at hornets nests if that is what gets you off.

If you ever actually start developing trees and posting them here, maybe someone will let me know. I won't hold my breath.
 
Did I mention you?
Markyscott?
Adair?
Or whomever else took offense at my post?








Think about it.
Do JBP live in a zone 4 climate?




My idea of Sunday morning fun is poking at hornets nests.
Looks like I got one riled up first thing.


Good morning drones.
Mike I suggested you read the pine seeds thread or at least the opening post, because Eric states that he went to Boon’s with a bunch of poor 10 year old stock, and Boon suggested that in the time it would take to fix all the problems, he could grow new trees from seed! That wouldn’t have all the old scars and reverse taper issues.
 
Oh, ok. I guess all the apprentices in Japan can go home now. MichaelS as determined that there’s no value in studying with someone who’s really, really good at something.

You might as well send letters to all the colleges and Universities that they should shut down because they create teacher-student relationships, and knowledge is passed from one to another!

Geez.


Studying with the best makes you nothing but somebody that studied with the best (and likely paid too much for it).

Some of you know I have a Masters degree in theology from Fuller Theological Seminary. My professors are known the world over and Fuller is considered by everyone in academia to be one of the top seminaries in the world, academically on par with Harvard, Cambridge or any other university. If you open a theological writing from the past 20 or so years, chances are very good that one of my professors (or someone they taught) wrote it or is cited. My Hebrew professor has held the Dead Sea scrolls and Codex Vaticanus in his hands. He can even read Ugaritic and Hieroglyphics.

What does this pedigree make me? Nothing except a person who knows some really cool people. Until I distinguish myself, all that stuff is so much mental masturbation. It certainly does not make me an expert by osmosis or some such thing.

I have been trying bonsai for 20 years now. I know quite a bit about horticulture and I have an idea what I think bonsai is supposed to be. However, I have never shown a tree and I don't think I have ever produced something I would call "finished." So neither time nor expert teaching make you an expert. So what is the magic pill?

In any case @Adair M, find it amusing that you would call out @Smoke when for the past 10 years or so the hallmark of Boon's students is arrogance, snobbishness and believing they are something because they can buy lessons. There are of course many exceptions but the majority that I have ever had interactions with have more in common with the North side of a South bound horse than they do a teacher of bonsai. I have learned more from @Smoke than anyone bar none. That's my $.02.
 
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Well, I suppose you are right if you go to school and then don’t apply what you have learned

Theology, huh? Surprising given the tone and language you used.

For myself, there is no way I would have been able to have won Best in Show 4 of the past 5 years in my local club. The year I didn’t win, my student did on a tree I basically prepared for him. And I’ve taken trees to the National Exhibition, won Best Shohin at the the National Shohin Show.

So, no, there’s no value in the education I’ve teceived at all.

I’m not saying this to brag, or be arrogant, or be haughty or whatever you may want to call it. I went to school, applied what I learned, and it’s been successful.

Now, if I were mean spirited, I’d keep all that I’ve learned to myself. But, no, that’s not how it is. My writing style is terse. I punch these posts out on my iPhone, hunt and peck. But I share what I’ve learned with the on-line community. And I teach classes at the local bonsai shop. In fact, the people at the shop often message me when a client comes in with a tree, and they ask me to help them with what to do with it!

All of us are different kinds of learners. Just hearing something doesn’t work well for me. I’m more visual. Video training is better. The best is in person, hands on. So, when I decided I wanted to take it to “the next level”, that’s when I decided the Intensive program was the best way for me. I had a choice between Boon and Ryan Neil. I chose Boon because I got the impression that he specialized in JBP, which was my primary interest. Ryan specializes in the collected trees in the Pacific Nortwest. Well, I live in the Southeast, and JBP does really well in my climate. The Pacific northwest trees? Not so much.

You may not like me, my teacher, or his other students. Doesn’t matter. The goal is for each of us to find the path to excellence. If your path leads to Smoke, then go for it.
 
Hardly sublime! Design suggests total control and that just does not work with bonsai. It leads to a parody.....
This tree was designed...

View attachment 198349

On the other hand, letting go of total control gives you a chance of finding sublimity.......
This tree was not designed.....It has been carefully controlled over many decades yes, but not designed.
Both of these trees are collected material.

View attachment 198351

Tell me you can see the difference.
Tell me you understand which can really be the only way forward when trying to capture what bonsai is supposed to capture.
@Adair, I didn’t style that tree. Either Bjorn or Maeoka-san did that one.
 
Well, I suppose you are right if you go to school and then don’t apply what you have learned

Theology, huh? Surprising given the tone and language you used.

Why should it surprise you that a person that is well acquainted with their own flaws would seek knowledge to correct those flaws? At the end of the day, what's better, a person working on their shortcomings, or a person who thinks their fert cakes don't stink?

Adair M said:
For myself, there is no way I would have been able to have won Best in Show 4 of the past 5 years in my local club. The year I didn’t win, my student did on a tree I basically prepared for him. And I’ve taken trees to the National Exhibition, won Best Shohin at the the National Shohin Show.

So, no, there’s no value in the education I’ve teceived at all.

So happy for you that you have received a blue ribbon for your pie at the county fair! *edit* Oh and I am sure your prize winning student would be happy to see you take credit for their win! How very humble! I always loved teachers like that. *close edit*


Adair M said:
I’m not saying this to brag, or be arrogant, or be haughty or whatever you may want to call it. I went to school, applied what I learned, and it’s been successful.

Of course you are or you would not have needed to say it! LOL! Contrast that with what I said which was rather self deprecating... Humble people don't need to 'toot their own horn' as the older generation used to say. Others notice your stuff without the self promotion!

Adair M said:
Now, if I were mean spirited, I’d keep all that I’ve learned to myself. But, no, that’s not how it is. My writing style is terse. I punch these posts out on my iPhone, hunt and peck. But I share what I’ve learned with the on-line community. And I teach classes at the local bonsai shop. In fact, the people at the shop often message me when a client comes in with a tree, and they ask me to help them with what to do with it!

I'm not saying you are not helpful, you certainly are! You do teach and I have learned a lot from you. That's not the point.

Adair M said:
All of us are different kinds of learners. Just hearing something doesn’t work well for me. I’m more visual. Video training is better. The best is in person, hands on. So, when I decided I wanted to take it to “the next level”, that’s when I decided the Intensive program was the best way for me. I had a choice between Boon and Ryan Neil. I chose Boon because I got the impression that he specialized in JBP, which was my primary interest. Ryan specializes in the collected trees in the Pacific Nortwest. Well, I live in the Southeast, and JBP does really well in my climate. The Pacific northwest trees? Not so much.

It's true there are many different kinds of learners I am thankful the rest of the world is starting to catch on to this, again, not my point. As far as working with trees in the Pacific Northwest goes, I think I'd like to try that. It sounds like shooting fish in a barrel to me. As a matter of fact I would like you to bring what you know and grow trees where I live. I could sure use an expert at keeping things alive at 118F, 4% humidity and 20 mph winds ,like we had last week, to show me how it's done...


Adair M said:
You may not like me, my teacher, or his other students. Doesn’t matter. The goal is for each of us to find the path to excellence. If your path leads to Smoke, then go for it.
[/QUOTE]

Don't know your teacher or much about him. Years ago I saw a few of his posts in various places and I am sure he knows his stuff better than I could ever dream of. However, I have had many run ins with his henchmen. Guys that pound their chest and preach, "Boon says this or Boon says that" or, "I go to every intensive so you better listen to my pontificating. (or is it defecting I never can remember...) The guys that post on this forum at this point in time really don't fall into that group. You used to be quite annoying with it but not so much anymore.

It used to be at a point when somebody would start a post with something like "Boon says" I would immediately quit reading. It was always that way or the highway and they would always feel free to tell everyone just how ignorant and classless they were because they could not afford to sit at the feet of the master. Some of us had kids that were more important and/or a spouse with cancer to care for and all of our time and money went to those things. Others put themselves first, I could not do this with a clear conscience.
 
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Why should it surprise you that a person that is well acquainted with their own flaws would seek knowledge to correct those flaws? At the end of the day, what's better, a person working on their shortcomings, or a person who thinks their fert cakes don't stink?



So happy for you that you have received a blue ribbon for your pie at the county fair! *edit* Oh and I am sure your prize winning student would be happy to see you take credit for their win! How very humble! I always loved teachers like that. *close edit*




Of course you are or you would not have needed to say it! LOL! Contrast that with what I said which was rather self deprecating... Humble people don't need to 'toot their own horn' as the older generation used to say. Others notice your stuff without the self promotion!



I'm not saying you are not helpful, you certainly are! You do teach and I have learned a lot from you. That's not the point.



It's true there are many different kinds of learners I am thankful the rest of the world is starting to catch on to this, again, not my point. As far as working with trees in the Pacific Northwest goes, I think I'd like to try that. It sounds like shooting fish in a barrel to me. As a matter of fact I would like you to bring what you know and grow trees where I live. I could sure use an expert at keeping things alive at 118F, 4% humidity and 20 mph winds ,like we had last week, to show me how it's done...

Don't know your teacher or much about him. Years ago I saw a few of his posts in various places and I am sure he knows his stuff better than I could ever dream of. However, I have had many run ins with his henchmen. Guys that pound their chest and preach, "Boon says this or Boon says that" or, "I go to every intensive so you better listen to my pontificating. (or is it defecting I never can remember...) The guys that post on this forum at this point in time really don't fall into that group. You used to be quite annoying with it but not so much anymore.

It used to be at a point when somebody would start a post with something like "Boon says" I would immediately quit reading. It was always that way or the highway and they would always feel free to tell everyone just how ignorant and classless they were because they could not afford to sit at the feet of the master. Some of us had kids that were more important and/or a spouse with cancer to care for and all of our time and money went to those things. Others put themselves first, I could not do this with a clear conscience. [/QUOTE]
Speaking of parroting, you are parroting Smoke. If you were a new person on the site, I would swear you were Smoke!!! Lol.

My student is well aware of my role in his winning BIS in the local show!! Geez, he wanted a good tree, I told him where to go to get one, he went, he sent me pictures of the available trees, he asked me which was best, I told him, he bought it, he then paid me to fix it up, to make it show ready. I did.

Now, do you think he’s insulted because I said I helped him win? Hardly!

Now, let’s be reasonable. You are an anonymous person on the Internet, hiding behind the moniker mile high something or other. I put my first name on my user name. I have no idea who you are, nor you me. Except I DO participate in Regional and National shows. But, before I did, how would anyone know that the thing I suggested they do to their trees had any basis? Who is Adair M? Just some redneck from GA. What the heck does he know?

When you go to the doctor, does he have his diploma hanging on the wall? Mine does.

When you go to hire someone, do you look at their resume?

Ever been to a Symphony that has a featured performer? They always list where they studied and who taught them in the program. And the lists of awards they have achieved.

I have never claimed to have made up any technique. I do put into practice things I have learned. I am proud of my teacher. In comparison, I am a poor teacher. In fact, one of my students started taking the intensives after he learned a bit from me.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something. That’s too bad. But I didn’t put it there.
I understand that not everyone can afford to travel to take bonsai classes. I am indeed lucky to be able to do so. So I try the best I can to “share the wealth”. How much do you pay me for the stuff you have learned from me? Is it of any value to you? Have I ever asked for anything in return for all the free information that I have paid thousands of dollars to obtain and I share it with everyone? No? Then why all the hate??? Please put me on ignore.

As for your climate, that’s tough. Use shade cloth, wind protection, lots of water, a layer of spaghnum moss on the surface, use native trees. Or at least trees that thrive in the climate where you live. I don’t have a greenhouse. Tropicals would freeze in the winter where I live unless I bring them inside. My wife doesn’t want me to bring trees into the house. So, I don’t grow tropicals.

Anyway, I’m sorry that you got bent out of shape because I would share my source of the information I was giving. I might accidentally do it again!

You know, it’s funny, sometimes people PM me and ask me to ask Boon what would he do about this or that. If I know the answer, I’ll just tell them what Boon would say. If not, I try to find a way to ask Boon when he’s not busy. Maybe you don’t value his knowledge, but others do.

But, hey, I’m just me. I really can’t change being me just because some guy in Vegas that I’ll probably never meet doesn’t like my posting style on the Internet. So, please put me on ignore. You’ll feel better, I’m sure of it.
 
Basho....
''Learn of the pine from the pine and of the bamboo of the from the bamboo. ....Do not follow in your masters footsteps, seek what he sought''.

He was talking about poetry, but it's just as applicable to bonsai and life in general really...It just means you must go to the source to discover the truth. Teachers are over-rated. As I said before, learn how to wire and other mechanical things and then leave. There is nothing more for you there other than someone else's interpretation.
 
The Boon guys @markyscott and @Adair M have always been cool to me. I've learned from them.

The economical guys have always been good to me @sorce and @GrimLore come to mind. I've learned from them.

The knowledgeable guys have always been cool to me @Smoke and @Anthony always have interesting things to say in my opinion. I've learned from them.

Friendly, informative posts from the likes of @JudyB and @amcoffeegirl really impress me always. I've learned from them.

I repotted my favorite pine and then fertilized it to quickly it died. I had an oak not get enough water on a hot day. It died. I've learned from experience.

There's a bunch of people on these forums that I didn't name who arent so famous and are helpful, inspiring, educating, informed and all the things in between. I've read things I liked and used them. Read things I didnt like and didn't use them. I've got no quarrel with Boon and no qualms with Ryan. Dont know and dont care about all the fancy names dropped on this thread.

Who gives a shit where you got your information. Who cares how you chose to share your information, or even if you chose not to share it, who gives a shit.

This entire thread has been pointless and should be moved somewhere like the tea house or something.

Someone once said don't touch a fire, it's hot. Somebody touched it anyway. A parrot watching the whole thing then told someone else about it.... That person flies away, builds a fire and says nobody touch it cause another guy told me about what he saw another guy do and it burned his hand!

The truth is......Some will touch it some will not. The point is why do we even care who touches the fire.

Do what makes you happy and enjoy the fire however you see fit. Talk about the fire however you see fit. Just enjoy the fire like my man @rockm said.

It's ultimately up to each individual. Fires don't burn forever.

Unless its hell right @milehigh_7 :p
 
Speaking of parroting, you are parroting Smoke. If you were a new person on the site, I would swear you were Smoke!!! Lol.

Thank you! That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in ages!

My student is well aware of my role in his winning BIS in the local show!! Geez, he wanted a good tree, I told him where to go to get one, he went, he sent me pictures of the available trees, he asked me which was best, I told him, he bought it, he then paid me to fix it up, to make it show ready. I did.

Now, do you think he’s insulted because I said I helped him win? Hardly!

No wonder I don't know how the show thing works! LOL! What a crock! Read that and apply it to any other realm of competition! That is pathetic.

Now, let’s be reasonable. You are an anonymous person on the Internet, hiding behind the moniker mile high something or other. I put my first name on my user name. I have no idea who you are, nor you me. Except I DO participate in Regional and National shows. But, before I did, how would anyone know that the thing I suggested they do to their trees had any basis? Who is Adair M? Just some redneck from GA. What the heck does he know?


My name is in the signature. Read for detail, it will come in handy at some point. Well you might not need it if you can pay others to do everything for you. LOL!

When you go to the doctor, does he have his diploma hanging on the wall? Mine does.
When you go to hire someone, do you look at their resume?
Ever been to a Symphony that has a featured performer? They always list where they studied and who taught them in the program. And the lists of awards they have achieved.

If I look at those things, it definitely does not cause me to decide one way or the other. Diploma? Happy day I have 4 working on the 5th. Resume? Means nothing if they can't do the job, resumes are often fluffed. Symphony? LOL, a few I'd tell you but unlike you name dropping is not my thing.

I have never claimed to have made up any technique. I do put into practice things I have learned. I am proud of my teacher. In comparison, I am a poor teacher. In fact, one of my students started taking the intensives after he learned a bit from me.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about something. That’s too bad. But I didn’t put it there.
I understand that not everyone can afford to travel to take bonsai classes. I am indeed lucky to be able to do so. So I try the best I can to “share the wealth”. How much do you pay me for the stuff you have learned from me? Is it of any value to you? Have I ever asked for anything in return for all the free information that I have paid thousands of dollars to obtain and I share it with everyone? No? Then why all the hate??? Please put me on ignore.

As for your climate, that’s tough. Use shade cloth, wind protection, lots of water, a layer of spaghnum moss on the surface, use native trees. Or at least trees that thrive in the climate where you live. I don’t have a greenhouse. Tropicals would freeze in the winter where I live unless I bring them inside. My wife doesn’t want me to bring trees into the house. So, I don’t grow tropicals.

Anyway, I’m sorry that you got bent out of shape because I would share my source of the information I was giving. I might accidentally do it again!

You know, it’s funny, sometimes people PM me and ask me to ask Boon what would he do about this or that. If I know the answer, I’ll just tell them what Boon would say. If not, I try to find a way to ask Boon when he’s not busy. Maybe you don’t value his knowledge, but others do.

But, hey, I’m just me. I really can’t change being me just because some guy in Vegas that I’ll probably never meet doesn’t like my posting style on the Internet. So, please put me on ignore. You’ll feel better, I’m sure of it.

If you have had all this training and practice and have not come up with anything original perhaps you are the perfect example of a parrot. You ought to be able to claim something by now. I have no chip I just thought it was funny that a S.O.B. "Student of Boon" would call out Smoke on the very thing they are known for! Made me chuckle. I tried to use myself as an example of proving that great teachers don't fix a broken student because owning my manifold failures is the best way I can think of to prove that. You should take that as a compliment! You could not be who you are if you had no talent.

I don't care about you sharing the "source of the information." It's just when you are like an junior high fangirl... well it's a little frightening.

fangirl.png
 
Oh and by the way there is only one person I have come close to ignoring and you are not that person. Heck, I like you! One more thing @Adair M, if you think the things I have said over the years are rough, you have never read any of Martin Luther's work! Especially the untranslated German! The man had a vile mouth! LOL! Not to mention he butchered 100,000 unarmed peasants. He's got an entire denomination named after him so...
 
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Long before I started posting here, another Boon student, Eric Schroeder, created a thread here entitled “some pine seeds, 6 years later”. I encourage you, and anyone doing the JBP seed growing contest to read it
I can't find it. Somebody have a link for me, always interesting.
 
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