Another JBP project

Nybonsai12

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Picked this up about 2 months ago. Pics are from that time. Haven't changed much of anything to it yet except slowly work the crap/moss off the trunk. I bought it because i liked the trunk movement,low branching and haven't come across anything similar in person. It's larger than the pics below indicate.

Tree was repotted this year prior to my purchase. Top growth was clearly left to run. It's slow to get moving so far when compared to most pines in my garden but it's getting there, likely the result of repot and coming from cooler climate. As long as growth gets going this year my plan was to prune back later this year and possibly wire. For now lots of sun and heavy feed. Hopefully it does well for me.

Thoughts comments appreciated.
 

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sorce

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H to the ell yeah!

I like your pickups!
And we ain't talking guitars again!

Sorce
 

0soyoung

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I think I would be trying to persuade the lowest right branch to swing out low and to the right, right now. Then the tree would have the classic 3-branch styling (first pad low-left, second pad up a bit but to the right, and the apical pad, of course there's something to make a depth element that I didn't include in the count) that would show off that nice twist/turn in the trunk. If that really can't be done, then ...

Fun material you've chosen, @Nybonsai12 :D
 

Adair M

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What do the candles look like now?

About where do you live, and where is it from?

That pot is kinda small. Too deep. Bad shape. What it's doing is encouraging roots to grow down deep, rather than out wide.

Which makes me suspect that whoever potted it didn't do a very good job. I've seen this kind of thing done where they take a nursery tree in a big black plastic can, saw the bottom off, scrape enough soil around the sides to fit into one of those "dragon pots", pour some good bonsai soil around the sides, and over the top, and say, "It's been repotted into good bonsai soil".

No it hasn't!

Hopefully, I'm wrong. But that's what it LOOKS like to me.

If I'm right (and you can tell by brushing away the loose granular soil and seeing for yourself how wide the dense dark old root ball is), what happens is: when you water, the old root ball is very dense. Water might soak down, but it takes s long time. Meanwhile, most of the water runs off the dense rootball to the edges. There it finds the open "good bonsai soil". It drains like crazy! It runs down, to the bottom, and out the drain hole. It LOOKS like the tree has been watered. But, inside the core of the old root ball, where all the feeder roots were, it's slowly drying out. As it dries out, it becomes harder and harder to wet it. Have you ever seen water puddle up on a completely dry sponge? Only once it gets damp that it really absorbs water? That's what happens to these old peat based nursery stock rootballs.

So the tree doesn't do well, and maybe even dies, and then when the postmortem is done, it's found there are no roots in the "good bonsai soil"! WTF? It must be crap!

No. It's an incompetent job of potting! I see it often.

You see, when transitioning a tree out of the old soil and into "good bonsai soil", the old soil has to be REPLACED. Which means it must be removed. And new good soil put into where the old soil was.

But... But... But... "You can't bare root a pine! Everyone knows that!!!"

Yes, it has to be done in stages. The "Half Bare Root" repot. Do 1/2 the tree. Left or right, or back or front, makes no difference. Just pick a half. I choose the half with the worst roots. Clean out all the old soil using bent tip tweezers and root hook. Last stage is gently washing the roots with water, being careful to leave the other half intact. Get all the way in under the trunk. Then, pot. Try to remove the heavy downward roots, and keep the roots growing out laterally. Force new soil down under the trunk. Using chopsticks.

Next year if it's growing strong, do the other half. Maybe wait two years if it's not as strong as you'd like.

That's what should have been done to you tree. I doubt it was. Next spring, you should do it.
 

Nybonsai12

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@Adair M
I'm in Long Island, NY. Tree came from Mass.

I can try and get some pics of the candles but last I checked they were extending and just starting to show needles. the area that was previously decandled is a little behind the stronger apex(as I would expect).

Suthin did the repot this year.
 

Adair M

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Shit I hope so! :)
Although... That half bare root process, is a Boon thing. Not everyone does it. You see, in Japan, their raw stock is grown in better soil to begin with. They don't have the issue we have where landscape nurseries use sand, pine bark, and peatmoss.

When Boon returned to the US, he "invented" the HBR technique to move the trees into good soil.

In reality, he should be more famous for this technique than "Boon Mix".
 

barrosinc

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Well I am off to 6 HBR this year in a couple of months. Will try to document it.
Boon mix, I think I will never try it... a friend tried to import akadama and got destroyed at customs.
 

Nybonsai12

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Well I am off to 6 HBR this year in a couple of months. Will try to document it.
Boon mix, I think I will never try it... a friend tried to import akadama and got destroyed at customs.

Make sure to take pics!
 

Nybonsai12

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From strong to weak. Strongest at the top where tree was not decandle. 2nd and 3rd pics are Weaker candles on lower branches that I assume were decandled last year.
 

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Brian Van Fleet

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This growth and the color of the needles suggest a weak tree, assuming your most recent post contains recent photos. The candles you label as strong would be alarming if they were the weakest ones. I'm not sure why someone would decandle the weak, but not the strong last year. That makes no sense, but now it's your tree and you're going to have to get it strong, and then balance it.

I agree with Adair, the center of the root ball looks like it contains heavy nursery soil. I would hold off pruning or training until next spring, and get the roots in better soil first, or you will slowly lose this tree, instead of quickly develop it.

Feed it heavily, give it 100% full sun, and watch the water. If you get a rainy period, tip the pot up to aid drainage. You might also aerate the center and back fill it with some haydite or river sand to support air and water movement.
 

Nybonsai12

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Thanks Brian. As for the candles I was thinking the top growth was left to grow out as sacrifice? while lower branches were decandled to keep growth close?

The needle color is yellower than my other pines for sure. im hoping the new growth is greener. Maybe iron would help?

I feel like my other pines are off to a good start this year with my yard being sunnier. They have good color and no signs of problems so far. Hopefully this one follows their lead with your suggestions.
 

Giga

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Needs some love and I 2nd everyone's advice but - looks like a fun project if you can bring it back to good health ;)
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Thanks Brian. As for the candles I was thinking the top growth was left to grow out as sacrifice? while lower branches were decandled to keep growth close?
If so, it's impossible to identify sacrifice vs. final branches, from first round of photos. Even in year 1 it should pretty clear if that was the case, by removing needles from sacrifice branches to keep them from shading the final ones, and cutting back into final branches to develop some ramification, instead of just candle-cutting the ends.

Once it's growing strong, and you're confident it's in better soil, you can start thinking about style. Turn it around for the next 8-9 months until you find the best trunk line, then start thinking about which branches support that trunk movement.
 

Nybonsai12

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Repotted this guy today among a few others. It's been so warm, today nearly 70. since last year I've really wanted check out the roots and get it potted so that I was comfortable with knowing what could have been the issue with slow growth last year. If i mess it up, i want to know that I DID IT.

I was told it was repotted before i acquired it last year, but I just don't know how that is possible. It was completely root bound with long roots just circling the bottom. I didn't see any rot or bugs. Oddly enough directly under the trunk was a small patch of soil that hadn't broken down at all. Just white with mycorrhizae, but completely intact akadama. I think the pot was a little small so i chose to put it into something a little bit larger. It's not a good match, but believe it will serve the purpose I need for now. I gave some thought to remove some of the strong, long, extended upper growth, but left it alone for today. Would you remove any of that branching, or just pull needles to try and balance things? Hopefully things go smooth for it this season. Thanks for looking.
suthinpine.jpg
 

Nybonsai12

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Taking some pics today after work. Tree grew well this season, i pruned away some of the foliage near the top early on. top growth a little paler than I'd like. its been a wet season. Im going to have to make some pruning decisions this fall/winter to open it up and start getting interior growth in the right path. Advice/comments as always are appreciated.

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