That's a shame. I was hoping you could look past differences....if we meet up at another convention should I even say "hi"?
An open letter to Mr. Nut
- Thread starter Graydon
- Start date
That's a shame. I was hoping you could look past differences....if we meet up at another convention should I even say "hi"?
This is really surprising to me on 2 levels. One I've met and hung out with you on several bonsai related occasions and had a great time...never thought some one like you would say this. Second as it seems you tend to identify more with a Liberal point of view politically and I thought one the liberal tag lines was to be open minded.
I have no problem communicating with or "liking" you or any other person on this forum that I have bitterly and severely disagreed with. Like the Head Nut related it to a big family that is exactly how I see it. You just get over the offense and get back to being friends....to me, it's really that simple. Period....so I guess I'm challenging you and any one else to do the same and choose to not let it hinder any feelings you have toward other members of the forum.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"Coincidence? I doubt it. That is my only regret in having posted in the karaoke bar....It seems those who claim to be "open" minded in the karaoke bar can be the most close minded out side of it."
Paranoid? Probably. It seems those that who look for offense, can find it almost anywhere.
I don't think the lack of response to your pine thread had much of anything to do with your opinions on other topics. You got comments and advice that applied to the tree...I think you're taking offense at what may be polite silence...
Paranoid? Probably. It seems those that who look for offense, can find it almost anywhere.
I don't think the lack of response to your pine thread had much of anything to do with your opinions on other topics. You got comments and advice that applied to the tree...I think you're taking offense at what may be polite silence...
Um...I wasn't referring to that post at all.....I wasn't even thinking of any of my posts...LOL I haven't really been posting trees lately!
ghues
Omono
As a newbie....I am agreeing with many of the others and ADMIN NUT......don't go to the K'bar if you are seriously interested in exchanging information on Bonsai.............but as some have pointed out (and from my point of view) the attitudes have spilled over into other posts....... and many of us have fallen into that trap......even added people to their ignore list. But hey I'll get over it.
Cheers everyone
Cheers everyone
Well rockm, I guess I'm not the only "paranoid" (LOL) person around these here parts
No you're not, I'm scared of spiders............
keep it green,
Harry
watchndsky
Chumono
if a topless bar wanted to open up shop beside a church - would that be ok?
dont ban the bar - they have a right to be there! but the church going folk shouldnt have to see it everyday right? i mean topless bars are awful and no good christian should have to be subjected to the sight of neon sex glowing next to their house of worship, right?
the only reason i have a problem with the "bar" on this forum is that - for me its a waste of time. i have free will and all - if i choose to argue with someone over religion or politics (or anything else) then fine, i have a right to do so. but if i only come here because this is a BONSAI site - and thats all im interested in - dont you think im going to be discouraged from ever returning when i open the home page for this site - see two new posts about bonsai and twelve over nonsense?
i can only speak for myself, and phrased it as such -im only suggesting that some thought be given to removing these "bar" posts from being included in the new posts section of the home page. you dont have to do without the off topic banter, but if you choose to talk about something not related to bonsai - then you can click on a link to see all new posts found in the karaoke bar. this way the site puts its best foot forward on the home page with only bonsai related material (it is a bonsai forum remember) but those diehard folks who want to argue vent or whatever it is they do - can do so in a less "public" section of the site.
i say this because i routinely check the site for new posts, or something of interest - and if all i see in the new post listing is crap - i get discouraged from returning to the site or even looking around further.
i doubt i am the only one who does this.
who cares if folks go somewhere else right? i mean if your satisfied with the site being one big click of the same 12 people posting then dont change a thing....
dont ban the bar - they have a right to be there! but the church going folk shouldnt have to see it everyday right? i mean topless bars are awful and no good christian should have to be subjected to the sight of neon sex glowing next to their house of worship, right?
the only reason i have a problem with the "bar" on this forum is that - for me its a waste of time. i have free will and all - if i choose to argue with someone over religion or politics (or anything else) then fine, i have a right to do so. but if i only come here because this is a BONSAI site - and thats all im interested in - dont you think im going to be discouraged from ever returning when i open the home page for this site - see two new posts about bonsai and twelve over nonsense?
i can only speak for myself, and phrased it as such -im only suggesting that some thought be given to removing these "bar" posts from being included in the new posts section of the home page. you dont have to do without the off topic banter, but if you choose to talk about something not related to bonsai - then you can click on a link to see all new posts found in the karaoke bar. this way the site puts its best foot forward on the home page with only bonsai related material (it is a bonsai forum remember) but those diehard folks who want to argue vent or whatever it is they do - can do so in a less "public" section of the site.
i say this because i routinely check the site for new posts, or something of interest - and if all i see in the new post listing is crap - i get discouraged from returning to the site or even looking around further.
i doubt i am the only one who does this.
who cares if folks go somewhere else right? i mean if your satisfied with the site being one big click of the same 12 people posting then dont change a thing....
Personally I don't read much of the Karaoke bar posts. But I do believe anyone who wants to should have the right to do so. If anything there should be a limit on off topic discussion in other threads. I am not saying you cant have a joke or comment in a normal thread just no discussion off topic.
LOL...me too!
Like that.. I think thats ok.. Simple short.. not paragraph after paragraph about nothing when the topic is how to do a certain thing in bonsai.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
It would be ok if:
(1) You couldn't tell it was a topless bar from the outside
(2) People could get to the church without ever seeing anyone enter or leave the bar
I would argue, conversely, that it should be the same for topless bar patrons when a church opens next door
I think the biggest issue has not been the content posted, but rather the personal attacks. Therefore I am going to be much more careful to ensure that discussions stay on the impersonal level. Aside from that, I will always fall back to the line "it takes two to argue". If someone posts something you disagree with, I would think twice before I attacked that person's position. Rather I would seek to understand their position first, before I offered my own. I don't know of a single argument on the Internet that has ever been won by brute force.
watchndsky
Chumono
thats my point - when folks come to the site - the bar postings are what they see (and the verbal riot that sometimes ensues)
why not take the personal off topic postings off the main page so folks who are coming here for church dont see the off topic folks doing lap dances.
why not take the personal off topic postings off the main page so folks who are coming here for church dont see the off topic folks doing lap dances.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Ahhhhh.... I see your point (I'm a little slow sometimes). An excellent suggestion! Let me see if I can do this!
Anonymous User
Banned
Define action?
Subtract the nonsense, remove the flame wars, then filter out non-bonsai related posts, and you have less than it appears. But the question is do people really want all bonsai, serious discussion, straight forward bonsai content?
Yes they do, look at the page views here. 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, even over 50,000 page views, higher than most threads on any bonsai forums. But little discussion if compared to the politic, religion, and other non-bonsai threads.
People discuss what interest them, people read what interest them, there is no stopping it, no changing the people, all one can do is read and discuss what interest them.
You're a wise man, Nut.
Great idea!
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Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Thanks watchndsky! I have made this change.
watchndsky
Chumono
i think its a good move - not because of my own personal reasons (saves time etc) but honestly theres enough stuff in the world to feel bad, be mad about etc......i just want to logon and see some cool little trees in pots. i figure most will come to the site for the same reason, and it'd be a shame to turn them off from returning by giving the impression that all that goes on is bickering and arguing.
gotta run - i think im going to go check out the new strip club across town
gotta run - i think im going to go check out the new strip club across town
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"Well rockm, I guess I'm not the only "paranoid" (LOL) person around these here parts"
Well, no you've just not been around bonsai forums for very long
From what I've seen, it's newbies or at least folks who are newish to the sport who get the most offended. They tend to misunderstand the common thread that brings bonsai people together.
We bonsai people are a fractious bunch. We tend to be opinionated, free thinkers. Most (and I don't include myself in this group) tend to be fiercely smart and innovative. We can't really be pinned down socially though. There are many variations--for instance collectors (tree diggers) tend to have a rather reddish tinge to their necks and own guns, while ficus and bougainvilla growers tend to like flowered shirts, parrots and margaritas.
However, both of these subgroups and all the others can have rather strong political opinions but still are able to talk about their trees without rancor--although personal feuds erupt and a small number endure. I've seen that happen repeatedly over the years. I've also seen alot of extremely sensitive beginners take things waaay too seriously, leave in a huff, but return in a month or so...
Well, no you've just not been around bonsai forums for very long
From what I've seen, it's newbies or at least folks who are newish to the sport who get the most offended. They tend to misunderstand the common thread that brings bonsai people together.We bonsai people are a fractious bunch. We tend to be opinionated, free thinkers. Most (and I don't include myself in this group) tend to be fiercely smart and innovative. We can't really be pinned down socially though. There are many variations--for instance collectors (tree diggers) tend to have a rather reddish tinge to their necks and own guns
, while ficus and bougainvilla growers tend to like flowered shirts, parrots and margaritas. However, both of these subgroups and all the others can have rather strong political opinions but still are able to talk about their trees without rancor--although personal feuds erupt and a small number endure. I've seen that happen repeatedly over the years. I've also seen alot of extremely sensitive beginners take things waaay too seriously, leave in a huff, but return in a month or so...
I love the bonsai posts best when it's someone's work on a tree, a tree they've bought or collected and on and on, BUT how many times do we argue about "does Superthrive work", what's the best soil mix. All bonsai related posts are not created equal. Long live the bar !!!!!
keep it green,
Harry
keep it green,
Harry
Attila Soos
Omono
I am also bothered by some of the topics discussed (religion, abortion, partisanship, etc) and equally guilty in participating. These are topics that bring out the worst in people, and it is disturbing to see them on a bonsai forum. I seriously thought about avoiding this place for one single reason: during these heated discussions, when instults start flying back and forth, my dislike for someone who may have insulted me (with or without intent) can get to the point where I don't even care about his bonsai trees. It could be that next time when he posts a great tree, it will unfairly trigger a negative reaction from my part due to the fact that his personal views disturbed me in the past.
I realized that I am here for my love of bonsai, and, as long as you post something that I can learn from, I don't want to know your views on religion or politics. I will like you because your tree may have touched me, and I don't want this to be ruined by the fact that you are a muslim and sympathize with suicide bombers. If I don't know these things, I will keep liking you because you create beautiful trees. And may be next time when you are about to blow up something, you will change your mind because there may be somebody there who likes you because of your beautiful trees. That's how friendships develop and minds change, by focusing on the beautiful things in life.
(btw, I used to have friends from these forums for our love of bonsai, who are no longer friends exactly because of these other BS topics).
There are far too many things that divide us. Religion and politics are violent because they exclude those who have a different view. They exclude them by means of brute force.
On the other hand, there is only one thing that unites us: that is bonsai. So, if bonsai is just one of the many topics, chances are that we will be more divided, and bonsai will just be an afterthought.
But to me, the solution would be very simple: threads from the Karaoke bar should not show up when clicking on the "New Posts" tab. That's all. This will solve everything.
The reason is that most of us click on the New Posts tab as soon as we get here (I NEVER click on any other tab), and what we see on New Posts, that's what defines this forum.
If you exclude the Karaoke from showing up on New Posts, one has to make a conscious effort to CHOOSE the Karaoke bar. And that is entering at your own risk, you can't blame this Forum if you choose to do that. On the other hand, people who enjoy to argue and bicker about these off-topics, will have no problem looking up the Karaoke bar.
I think this simple solution would satisfy even Graydon, since he will definitely not look for Karaoke, unless someone sticks these threads right in his face. And it will definitely please me, since I will never waste my time in the Karaoke bar.
I realized that I am here for my love of bonsai, and, as long as you post something that I can learn from, I don't want to know your views on religion or politics. I will like you because your tree may have touched me, and I don't want this to be ruined by the fact that you are a muslim and sympathize with suicide bombers. If I don't know these things, I will keep liking you because you create beautiful trees. And may be next time when you are about to blow up something, you will change your mind because there may be somebody there who likes you because of your beautiful trees. That's how friendships develop and minds change, by focusing on the beautiful things in life.
(btw, I used to have friends from these forums for our love of bonsai, who are no longer friends exactly because of these other BS topics).
There are far too many things that divide us. Religion and politics are violent because they exclude those who have a different view. They exclude them by means of brute force.
On the other hand, there is only one thing that unites us: that is bonsai. So, if bonsai is just one of the many topics, chances are that we will be more divided, and bonsai will just be an afterthought.
But to me, the solution would be very simple: threads from the Karaoke bar should not show up when clicking on the "New Posts" tab. That's all. This will solve everything.
The reason is that most of us click on the New Posts tab as soon as we get here (I NEVER click on any other tab), and what we see on New Posts, that's what defines this forum.
If you exclude the Karaoke from showing up on New Posts, one has to make a conscious effort to CHOOSE the Karaoke bar. And that is entering at your own risk, you can't blame this Forum if you choose to do that. On the other hand, people who enjoy to argue and bicker about these off-topics, will have no problem looking up the Karaoke bar.
I think this simple solution would satisfy even Graydon, since he will definitely not look for Karaoke, unless someone sticks these threads right in his face. And it will definitely please me, since I will never waste my time in the Karaoke bar.
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