Aluminum vs Copper Price Wise

[A Random User]

On a recent discussion on another thread the subject of price comparison between Aluminum and Copper came up... It has become pretty much common wisdom that the reasoning for using Aluminum has to do with the price being cheaper... Personally, having used a ton of both, it was my own feeling regarding the matter, that I did not really think there was that much of a difference in price between the two... but I thought it would be interesting to look into it further.

The following is what I have manage to come up with... would love to hear any thoughts, arguments, disagreements, etc... Side note, I also wanted to add that the following sellers of the various products were only used for this discussion sake, these are providers I have bought from and found their pricing to be reasonable and fair. I am not trying to endorse, or ridicule the sellers or their pricing...

For Copper

For demonstration purpose I will be referencing Adam's Bonsai and his pricing for Copper as well as the amount one receives.

For this discussion if one picks his 18 Gauge Copper wire, You will see that it sells for $4.00 , and with the 20 % surcharge for increase of copper wire that is charged... it brings the total to $4.80

One will also note that this is for a 50 foot roll.

Here is the link used for reference of copper wire:
http://www.adamsbonsai.com/adamsbonsi2013_008.htm


For Aluminum

I will be referencing Eastern Leaf's Website because, because they provide a listing of actual Feet per Kilo of wire. So, according to them... this is Approx. 380 feet of No. 2 aluminum wire per Kilo. I have chosen to use No. 2 aluminum wire in this comparison, due to what I believe is the closest to the 18 gauge copper wire in terms of relevant strength.

Obviously, we now need to try and do the math and figure out how to work out the feet comparison. Here is what I have come up with... I have referenced Stone Lantern's Pricing for their Aluminum, due to the fact that for me they were who I used the most...

1 kilo of 2.0 wire = aprox. 380 ft.
500 grams of 2.0 wire = aprox. 190 ft.
100 grams of 2.0 wire = aprox. 38ft. $3.45

So, if we were to go by the fact that we need to compare the 50 foot roll of copper to a 50 foot roll of aluminum, we would have to look at the pricing of the 100 gram roll. Yet this is only for a 38 foot roll. So to get us a little closer... if we did a 100 gram roll and a half, this would give us 57 foot roll and would then cost us ...

1 roll of 100 grams and half of another $5.18

Here are the links referenced for Aluminum.
http://www.easternleaf.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=118020-01-20
http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Aesthetics_Wire_100_gram_rolls_p/cw.htm

Conclusion

In conclusion... I would like to say, that the relevant choice of the different size wiring I chose for each to compare, are what I personal found to be the closest. In this case, what I found was that in all actuality if one was to compare the 18 gauge copper wire to the No.2 aluminum wire that the price worked out to be pretty much the same... I said pretty much, because I don't really feel like dividing further to figure out the exact amount of 50 foot of aluminum. And even perhaps it worked out even a little cheaper for the copper...

Even if one was to compare the next size up in size for copper, which would be the 16 gauge wire. The Total for it, with the surcharge, would only be around 2 dollars more. So, for me the findings only reconfirm what I already thought... That the argument for the use of Aluminum being cheaper, is not really the case.

Please feel free to point out any errors one sees with this thread... I am after all only human, and it is 3 o'clock in the morning! I just thought it would be worth kicking off a debate, and starting a discussion concerning it.
Thanks!

 

[Anthony]

Once again, don't you guys have friends who are jewellers ?

You can cast a barrel, compress and draw to the gauge you need. On our side, you will be allowed to do it for yourself from scratch.
Tooooooo much love of convenience.
Why make problems, when none exist.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

Ah yes.

Let me be second!

I use copper because it's easier to find for free.
I got some aluminum wire.
I use it to tie my trees down!

If I run out of copper, I will search Under J in the phone book!

Sorce

 

[Dav4]

Once again, don't you guys have friends who are jewellers ?

You can cast a barrel, compress and draw to the gauge you need. On our side, you will be allowed to do it for yourself from scratch.
Tooooooo much love of convenience.
Why make problems, when none exist.
Good Day
Anthony

Anthony, every once in a while, you bring something tangible and helpful to the discussion. Unfortunately, you more frequently show your distain for Americans by posting crap like this, and I'm tired of it. I'm married, have two teenage children, and work keeps me away from the house for 50 hours a week on average. I barely have time to wire my trees, never mind draw the raw copper to size. Convenience... give me a break. I get it...you don't like Americans, you don't like our perceived materialistic lifestyles. NOBODY here wants to here it...ever. You come across as an ass, so please, please....go away.

 

[sorce]

Sorce

 

[jeanluc83]

In this case yes for a small amount of wire it is a wash. But as you said you go through a lot of wire. It would make sense to get it in bulk. Stone lantern offers 1 kilo of 2.0 wire for $19.50. This brings the price per foot down significantly.

1 kilo of 2.0 Al wire --> $19.50/380' = ¢5.1 per foot
100 gram 18 gauge Cu wire --> $4.80/50' = ¢9.6 per foot

For an equivalent length of copper wire it would be $36.48 using the per foot price. That is not a small difference. There may be a discount for buying x number of kilos of from Adam's Bonsai but I would bet its not almost 50%.

 

[jeanluc83]

You can cast a barrel, compress and draw to the gauge you need. On our side, you will be allowed to do it for yourself from scratch.
Tooooooo much love of convenience.

It's not about convenience. It is about not being feasible. Anyone that could have done it for a reasonable price has been driven out of business by cheaper alternatives. If you could find someone to do it the cost would far surpass what you could buy readymade wire.

 

[rockm]

Once again, don't you guys have friends who are jewellers ?

You can cast a barrel, compress and draw to the gauge you need. On our side, you will be allowed to do it for yourself from scratch.
Tooooooo much love of convenience.
Why make problems, when none exist.
Good Day
Anthony

No. Don't have jeweler friends. I'd say most people don't. Drawing the conclusion that since we don't have jewelers for friends we can sponge wire from we must be lazy is kind of a strange thought.

I DO have home improvement contractor friends who pick up loads of scrap copper wire all the time. Problem is, copper is in high demand in the U.S. Heck, there are people stripping out live electrical mains to sell the wire, copper guttering on old houses is being pried off and sold. My contractor friend won't part with what he finds very easily. This supply and demand stuff is a bitch.

 

[Anthony]

Apologies, for the crushed toes. I must remind myself that this is Friday, the traditional day for arguments.

Yes, we can get bits and pieces from electrical folk, and then melt, cast into usable shapes, and draw into wire.
Aluminium is also easy to get, melted coca-cola cans and so on. Not really bothered by the colour, plus one could make aluminium bronze, which is red-yellow.

A bit of advice from my grandfather [ Chinese and super cheap ] do as much as you can for yourself, save the money and when you retire, enjoy what you save.
Of course on this island, when you reach 65, and have never worked, the Gvt. gives you $4,500 TT, grocery bill is around $300.00 TT a month. [ 6.35 TT = 1.00 US $]
Good Day
Anthony

 

[rockm]

Gee, thanks, hadn't ever really thought about saving the dollar bills I use to wash my, err, car with.

WOW, mind blown.

And if I had the time to gather enough aluminum cans to melt down and make enough wire, I wouldn't have a job. And FWIW, aluminum cans on the roadside, etc. aren't as common as they used to be. Recycling programs in states and cities have made them rare.

 

[Dav4]

Apologies, for the crushed toes. I must remind myself that this is Friday, the traditional day for arguments.

You could've posted it Monday and it still would have been crap.

 

[Nybonsai12]

we have a name here in NYC for folks that spend their days going around gathering up aluminum cans....and the mayor doesn't want to talk about them.

 

[sorce]

. My contractor friend won't part with what he finds very easily

I gotta say it again.

My scrappers are sitting on copper now for it to go up in $.
And running out of space .

I could easily borrow some coated wire from them, and return it stripped later, they will enjoy the free labor, and take it back for more $ stripped.
And more, like when $2.40/lb goes back to $ 3.60/lb.

When I say "my scrappers" I mean....
Any one of them I see in the alley.

No alleys? Find a jeweler! Lol.

Sorce

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Learn something new every day. I'm not kidding when I say I did not know jewelers could make copper wire. This from a guy who used to work summers in an aluminum extrusion mill I am very familiar with the process of making wire, I just thought it was done on an industrial scale.

 

[Vance Wood]

I prefer Aluminum because I find it easier to work with FOR ME! Copper has an annoying trait of binding up once it is bent and becomes more difficult to move after that has happened. I tend to move a branch here and then ---- there I find copper makes changing my mind difficult and counter productive. I also reuse wire OMG shoot me now. It is really difficult to reuse copper wire. As I mentioned previously once you bend copper it become like a steel bar. You try unwinding this stuff off of a branch, odds are you will injur the branch. So you really can only use copper one time. Therefor I have Aluminum wire I have reused over and over for many years. I am sure there are going to be mountains of criticism for this but there you go. I save a lot of money because I don't have to buy it over and over year after year. It has been at least five years since I invested any amount of money into wire.

 

[coh]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I just got back from visiting my jeweler friend, who was more than happy to take time out of his busy schedule to pull wire from the little block of melted aluminum cans that I've been collecting for the past couple of weeks. I've now got 9" of perfectly usable aluminum wire ready to go. Can't wait to get that branch wired!

Maybe by New Years Day I'll have enough to work on that other branch that needs attention.

Once again, don't you guys have friends who are jewellers ?

You can cast a barrel, compress and draw to the gauge you need. On our side, you will be allowed to do it for yourself from scratch.
Tooooooo much love of convenience.
Why make problems, when none exist.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Vance Wood]

Oh I get it! Sarcasm. I'm going to wire my tree with sarcasm. Use anything you like to wire your trees, I am not going to make broad statements more or less mandating an opinion that you, me, or anyone else is not doing bonsai correctly unless they use copper. If you can get from point A to point B as far as styling is concerned, and are successful in the end, who cares how you got there? I don't think we get points for method just answers.

 

[coh]

Not directed at you, Vance

 

[Anthony]

Yes, I see the distraction has worked - forget the discussion - side road - and no answers.

Well how about this, the copper scrapped from wiring is re-melted and re-used. What about sweeping the floors for 1/2" or less pieces at the electrical places.

Making wire is very simple, and aluminium scrap also exists in other aluminium businesses, for us it would be awning and tubing. You can get that metal by the pound.
Anyone else with possible answers ?
Good Day
Anthony

* Hmm down here to get aluminium cans, just by asking the places that sell drinks if they would hold the cans for us. Most just put them into a separate garbage bag, for free, no highways needed.

 

[Andrew Robson]

You try unwinding this stuff off of a branch, odds are you will injur the branch.

Not if you remove it correctly. This is only true on the really big wire.