Akadama...My Experience

[Potawatomi13]

It is well known that PROPER TOPDRESSING is a NECESSARY component of the system

As understood in local club: Baloney. Only used when displaying tree or for protection of exposed roots until established. Reason being it clogs otherwise desirably open substrate. This should be obvious. Avoiding crapadama prevents OP problem.

 

[Potawatomi13]

holds water whereas pumice and lava don’t

An outright lie! Pumice is porus like sponge and holds H2O EXTREMELY well!

 

[ibakey]

I recalled a video I watched sometime ago where Ryan from Mirai explains about soil.
I hope this will help OP and whoever that wants clarity on this matter.

He does mention in the video that a quick way to differentiate good akadama from the bad is to order one bag first and check how much akadama dust there is in the bag. If there is a lot of akadama dust in the bag from all the transport, it is likely to be 'bad' akadama that will break down very quickly. If there are a low proportion of dust, then its likely that it will have less breakdown in your usage.

Ryan also explains the principals of akadama and how it benefit trees in pots.
Do watch the video, it is a little long but it was interesting for me.

 

[Bosco Seitzer]

But I do want to say, there is nothing magical about "Japanese Dirt"

If you pay for mined earth to be dug up from ground, put in plastic bags, fly/sail across oceans, so you can sift and use the desireable 50% as media for container horticulture the you are great and The "put dirt in a bag and send it all over the world" industry really appreciates it (Also transportation and oil).

Since I am a purist and an orthodox bonsai hobbyist I grow my trees in a mix dating back hundres of years in Japan, its mainly just four components; Sand, Broken oyster shells, tree bark, and exclusivity.

 

[LanceMac10]

If you pay for mined earth to be dug up from ground, put in plastic bags, fly/sail across oceans, so you can sift and use the desireable 50% as media for container horticulture the you are great and The "put dirt in a bag and send it all over the world" industry really appreciates it (Also transportation and oil).

Since I am a purist and an orthodox bonsai hobbyist I grow my trees in a mix dating back hundres of years in Japan, its mainly just four components; Sand, Broken oyster shells, tree bark, and exclusivity.

Care to share your results via a visual representation?

 

[Dav4]

Care to share your results via a visual representation?

Your request is gonna take a minute... since he's a purist and orthodox practitioner and staying true to the techniques from hundreds of years ago, he's gonna need to source some sumi ink for the scroll painting of the sticks in pots... got burnt lamp oil??

 

[yashu]

I figured annual soil maintenance was a given as most people use organic fertilizer now and if you don’t maintain the surface of any soil your water penetration will suffer. My issues and those of many others I’m seeing with complaints about the traditional soils have been directly related to cold. I expect you aren’t seeing -20°F and daily and springtime swings in temp from well below freezing to well above in Georgia regularly so it may be something you’re not familiar with. The same stuff that makes for good maple syrup up here destroys akadama.

 

[Maiden69]

An outright lie! Pumice is porus like sponge and holds H2O EXTREMELY well!

I guess that you know more than the guy that wrote this thread...

Introductory soil physics

Great post Scott. It takes a lot of time and effort to do what you are doing. Appreciate your work, thanks. Did you get the same WHC for these three groups?

www.bonsainut.com

Pumice has the same porosity as turface and less than akadama, yet holds 1/2 the amount of water than either one. If you use a higher percentage of pumice, you need to water more frequently. This is why it is used for yamadory trees, because it will provide better water/oxygen while not holding too much water.

Some people have issues with akadama, I just repotted my luma, which was in a pond basket that was inside 1.5" tall disc full of water year round. All the akadama particles that were under water were still intact as they were not colonized by roots at the moment. Not turned to mud. Granted I had not experienced a lot of freeze cycles, but we had several this year... yet the frozen akadama inside the water did not break down.

 

[Dav4]

I figured annual soil maintenance was a given as most people use organic fertilizer now and if you don’t maintain the surface of any soil your water penetration will suffer. My issues and those of many others I’m seeing with complaints about the traditional soils have been directly related to cold. I expect you aren’t seeing -20°F and daily and springtime swings in temp from well below freezing to well above in Georgia regularly so it may be something you’re not familiar with. The same stuff that makes for good maple syrup up here destroys akadama.

So, you just described N. GA winter weather, basically from late November through early March. If the trees are on benches, they freeze and thaw multiple times a week. Also, once the water in soil freezes, it's frozen and doesn't expand any more... doesn't matter if it's 25 F or -20 F. Anyway, the south wrote the book on freeze/thaw in pots and I was never had issues with any noted akadama break down. Now that I'm back up in the frozen north, I can say truthfully that my trees probably experienced less freeze/thaw cycles as they were frozen almost continuously from late November until about 2-3 weeks ago. I'll be re-potting some of these trees this spring and more next year, but I'm pretty sure I'll still be using akadam based soils as long as I can source it up in the frozen north.

 

[yashu]

So, you just described N. GA winter weather, basically from late November through early March. If the trees are on benches, they freeze and thaw multiple times a week. Also, once the water in soil freezes, it's frozen and doesn't expand any more... doesn't matter if it's 25 F or -20 F. Anyway, the south wrote the book on freeze/thaw in pots and I was never had issues with any noted akadama break down. Now that I'm back up in the frozen north, I can say truthfully that my trees probably experienced less freeze/thaw cycles as they were frozen almost continuously from late November until about 2-3 weeks ago. I'll be re-potting some of these trees this spring and more next year, but I'm pretty sure I'll still be using akadam based soils as long as I can source it up in the frozen north.

The first is the weather at my locale in Maine, the second is Ringgold GA


…tell me more

 

[yashu]

This is just from Google;

“In Ringgold, the summers are hot and muggy; the winters are short, very cold, and wet; and it is partly cloudy year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 32°F to 89°F and is rarely below 19°F or above 95°F.”

My point is just that it’s a very different environment than the north. I wouldn’t figure I have to explain this. Also, there is in fact movement in ice as it goes from slightly frozen (which Georgia frequently sees) to more thoroughly frozen. This can depend on how long the low temp remains below the freezing point.

Just out of curiosity, how much ice fishing do the do down there

 

[Srt8madness]

One thing that hardly ever gets mentioned is annual maintenance. Each fall, the top 1/2 to 3/4 inch of old soil is scraped off and replaced with fresh bonsai mix. This removes weeds, old fertilizer, broken drown soil, etc. Do this for trees you don’t plan to repot the following spring. This practice is called “soji”.

Hardly mentioned is right. I read way too much about bonsai on a daily basis and this thread is the first I've learned about Akadama breakdown and soil scraping. Great stuff!

 

[LanceMac10]

This is just from Google;

“In Ringgold, the summers are hot and muggy; the winters are short, very cold, and wet; and it is partly cloudy year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 32°F to 89°F and is rarely below 19°F or above 95°F.”

My point is just that it’s a very different environment than the north. I wouldn’t figure I have to explain this. Also, there is in fact movement in ice as it goes from slightly frozen (which Georgia frequently sees) to more thoroughly frozen. This can depend on how long the low temp remains below the freezing point.

Just out of curiosity, how much ice fishing do the do down there

Collected dwarf? Acer saccharum

Shohin sugar maple in a Sara Rayner pot. This tree is mostly unstyled besides some pruning of third twigs/branches and some spacers. I can’t seem to not scar my maples so I’ve been working with this spacer idea. It has its obvious limitations but allows a good amount more manipulation than “clip...

www.bonsainut.com

...what is the soil pictured here?

Just as cold in my location as yours, I have not experienced such degradation from the akadama I have used. How do you water your material, garden hose or a something with a fine spray pattern?

 

[Dav4]

The first is the weather at my locale in Maine, the second is Ringgold GA

View attachment 427690View attachment 427692
…tell me more

You didn’t read my post.

it fell into the single digits 7-8 times while I lived there and always fell into the teens multiple times a month starting in late December. My trees stayed on my bench ALL winter, freezing multiple times a week from late November through Early March….

 

[LanceMac10]

This is just from Google;

“In Ringgold, the summers are hot and muggy; the winters are short, very cold, and wet; and it is partly cloudy year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 32°F to 89°F and is rarely below 19°F or above 95°F.”

My point is just that it’s a very different environment than the north. I wouldn’t figure I have to explain this. Also, there is in fact movement in ice as it goes from slightly frozen (which Georgia frequently sees) to more thoroughly frozen. This can depend on how long the low temp remains below the freezing point.

Just out of curiosity, how much ice fishing do the do down there

So your trying to tell someone the weather WHERE THEY LIVE isn't jibbing with Google????? Ahhhhhhh Maine.........

 

[yashu]

Just to make sure I wasn’t totally stuffing my foot in my mouth I searched for the coldest place in GA, the temp chart is posted below along with the chart from my area. For a person having been in MA I’m not quite sure how you are relating these two zones. The freeze thaw cycles aren’t even close and unless the data is totally skewed, the assertion that freeze/thaw cycles run from November through March seems far fetched.

I posted the soil breakdown I experienced with pure akadama on the previous page. The tree was repotted that spring and by December the soil had completely broken down underneath the top dressing. Whatever experience you’ve had simply doesn’t apply to my situation and it’s honestly frustrating when people try to apply a one size fits all response to people who have issues like this.

 

[yashu]

So your trying to tell someone the weather WHERE THEY LIVE isn't jibbing with

Collected dwarf? Acer saccharum

Shohin sugar maple in a Sara Rayner pot. This tree is mostly unstyled besides some pruning of third twigs/branches and some spacers. I can’t seem to not scar my maples so I’ve been working with this spacer idea. It has its obvious limitations but allows a good amount more manipulation than “clip...

www.bonsainut.com

...what is the soil pictured here?

Just as cold in my location as yours, I have not experienced such degradation from the akadama I have used. How do you water your material, garden hose or a something with a fine spray pattern?

The soil was fine all summer.

 

[yashu]

Collected dwarf? Acer saccharum

Shohin sugar maple in a Sara Rayner pot. This tree is mostly unstyled besides some pruning of third twigs/branches and some spacers. I can’t seem to not scar my maples so I’ve been working with this spacer idea. It has its obvious limitations but allows a good amount more manipulation than “clip...

www.bonsainut.com

...what is the soil pictured here?

Just as cold in my location as yours, I have not experienced such degradation from the akadama I have used. How do you water your material, garden hose or a something with a fine spray pattern?

That’s akadama

 

[yashu]

So your trying to tell someone the weather WHERE THEY LIVE isn't jibbing with Google????? Ahhhhhhh Maine.........

If you read that post that tree had just been repotted. It won’t be outside next winter, I’ll keep it with my “less hardy” trees. I paid for the damn stuff, I’m going to use it.

Also, we’re in different zones. Im in the mountains near the border, closer to North Conway and Bartlett than Nashua. I don’t doubt you have significant freeze thaw cycles though and I can only report my own experience, same as the OP.

 

[Dav4]

Just to make sure I wasn’t totally stuffing my foot in my mouth I searched for the coldest place in GA, the temp chart is posted below along with the chart from my area. For a person having been in MA I’m not quite sure how you are relating these two zones. The freeze thaw cycles aren’t even close and unless the data is totally skewed, the assertion that freeze/thaw cycles run from November through March seems far fetched.

I posted the soil breakdown I experienced with pure akadama on the previous page. The tree was repotted that spring and by December the soil had completely broken down underneath the top dressing. Whatever experience you’ve had simply doesn’t apply to my situation and it’s honestly frustrating when people try to apply a one size fits all response to people who have issues like this.
View attachment 427695View attachment 427696

Your overwintering strategy is just as significant a factor as your location. My trees, mulched in my cold frame here in MI this past winter, absolutely saw fewer freeze thaw cycles then they did two winters ago in GA. Fwiw, I spent 40 years living in MA before moving to GA… used to ski Saddleback Mt back in the 80’s… the coldest I’ve ever been was on the J bar just at the summit… - 10 F at noon