Akadama...My Experience

[Zaratrusta]

Akadama is supposed to break down to some extent. That’s what encourages better root growth. In my experience that is one of the worst brands of akadama that i have used. It’s incredibly soft. Triple line akadama is what I prefer to use and it holds up much better.
Also, what else is on your mix? I can’t tell if the white particles are Pumice or perlite

That’s the brand I use and in my experiencie it works pretty well. Recently I repotted a juniper that was 4 years with the same soil mix and my akadama granules were intact below first 1/2 inch of the surface.

 

[Paradox]

@August44
As @rockm stated, there are different types of akadama, some (ie the high fired akadama) are harder than others.
It is meant to break down over time.

I also use a 1:1:1 ratio of akadama : lava : pumice and I dont see this kind of break down so quickly.
I have trees that have not been repotted in 4-5 years and it doesnt look like what you pictured.
I only use high fired, hard akadama. I suspect you got some unfired, soft akadama which is why you are seeing what you are.

Even so, I dont see that this should be a big problem as the lava and pumice should maintain the soil structure so I dont think you need to be worried about an emergency repot or anything at this time, particularly if you just repotted last year and as long as the pots continue to drain well.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I’ve purchased various brands of akadama over the year in various sizes. Anything large was virtually unusable it was so big Compared to other components.

I’ve had softer stuff and harder stuff. Ive purchased the kind you have and havent had the issues you are having with it turning into dust. Some of it breaks down, but not what you are describing. You want it to break down To help promote feeder roots.

A lot of my Trees get repotted annually and the akadama usually isn’t even close to broken down like what you are indicating. But what works in my neck of the woods may not work for you.

First I have never used akadama. I’m hoping you can . Answer a question for me . You are located reasonably close to me . My understanding is akadama will break down rapidly if it is slowed to freeze . I’ve only seen tests if it in pure form . Does it break down if frozen in a mix . My understanding is based on what Ryan Neal said . Which at least made sense to me . That it has a tubular structure . This is why it is so prized . Roots will enter a particle of akadana . And divide . This fine ramification . Helps the tree ramifications above the soil . And maximizes the use of the space in the pot . So therefore it’s primary attraction. . Is for final development and ramification . In a final small bonsai pot . Would you agree with this . And other products may be better for development . Thank you

 

[August44]

@August44
As @rockm stated, there are different types of akadama, some (ie the high fired akadama) are harder than others.
It is meant to break down over time.

I also use a 1:1:1 ratio of akadama : lava : pumice and I dont see this kind of break down so quickly.
I have trees that have not been repotted in 4-5 years and it doesnt look like what you pictured.
I only use high fired, hard akadama. I suspect you got some unfired, soft akadama which is why you are seeing what you are.

Even so, I dont see that this should be a big problem as the lava and pumice should maintain the soil structure so I dont think you need to be worried about an emergency repot or anything at this time, particularly if you just repotted last year and as long as the pots continue to drain well.

I think you are correct with what I ended up with. Your words are encouraging and thanks for comments. I will watch the drainage but the soil should stay damp I would think.

 

[Paradox]

I think you are correct with what I ended up with. Your words are encouraging and thanks for comments. I will watch the drainage but the soil should stay damp I would think.

Yes I suppose it is possible it could stay wet if you have a lot of rainfall and it doesnt ever get to dry out.
Not sure what your weather/climate is like where you are? If you get rain almost every day for months on end, Id be more cautious.
We had a really rainy summer a few summers back and I didnt see any soil issues here.

As you say, keep an eye on it when you water and see how it does.

Ryan Neil is St. Helens Oregon so that might not be far from your location. Not 100% sure what he uses but I think he does use akadama.
Might be worthwhile doing some research on what he uses and if he has put out any info about types/brands and what ratios of soil components he uses..

*EDIT* actually there is a thread on his forums where someone is asking about Akadama. Only a couple of responses but it might help some?
If you use the search function, there are other threads too.

Best Acadama Brand

I noticed in Ryan’s videos that the acadama he uses is more fine the the brand I use which is what I would prefer. Where does one find a good brand of acadama? The brand I used is attached. Thanks in advance for your advice.

forum.bonsaimirai.com

Fired Akadama VS Regular

I saw a website selling fired Akadama, aka akadama that’s been fired at 450C to increase hardness while retaining cation exchange capacity (allegedly). It even comes with a testimonial from Walter Pall. Here’s the product page for it: IBUKI BONSAI SIEVED SUBSTRATE – MIX SEMIFIRED AKADAMA 60% /...

forum.bonsaimirai.com

 

[ibakey]

@August44
As @rockm stated, there are different types of akadama, some (ie the high fired akadama) are harder than others.
It is meant to break down over time.

I also use a 1:1:1 ratio of akadama : lava : pumice and I dont see this kind of break down so quickly.
I have trees that have not been repotted in 4-5 years and it doesnt look like what you pictured.
I only use high fired, hard akadama. I suspect you got some unfired, soft akadama which is why you are seeing what you are.

Even so, I dont see that this should be a big problem as the lava and pumice should maintain the soil structure so I dont think you need to be worried about an emergency repot or anything at this time, particularly if you just repotted last year and as long as the pots continue to drain well.

I think Paradox basically sums it up pretty well. I have a similar experience with soft vs hard akadama. Soft akadama breaking down very fast. With mild winters and even repotting with a chopstick.
Be sure to look out for high-fired akadama instead of just akadama.

 

[August44]

I think Paradox basically sums it up pretty well. I have a similar experience with soft vs hard akadama. Soft akadama breaking down very fast. With mild winters and even repotting with a chopstick.
Be sure to look out for high-fired akadama instead of just akadama.

My problem is I don't think some of this akadama is properly labeled, and it's done on purpose just to get rid of it. There are no regulations or quality controls set up to protect buyers. The country/factory that produced won't give you a refund and the vender shrugs his shoulders when you ask them. One gets pretty leary and tired of the scams. Just my opinion of course.

 

[sorce]

So much BS....

The ONLY thing true to me is that it is a Volcanic Soil, cuz Japan is a Volcano.

The heat certainly was not even during this Volcanic period when it was Volcanized.

What happened to it since deposit certainly wasn't equal either.

When/If it is fired to any temperature, will also be uneven.

So in conclusion....

If we think ANY brand is going to ALWAYS be the same....

We should get one of them new Government Crack Smoke kits and quit bonsai.

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

It largely depends on the depth from which it was mined.
Deeper deposits tend to be harder than shallow deposits of akadama

Yes it is a volcanic soil but so is lava and pumice.
NONE of those equal each other.
They are all different and have different properties

Good short description of what akadama is

Akadama - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bnana]

So it is great because it breaks down over time, but you should have a version that hardly breaks down?
The whole story about particles in the soil dividing resulting in better branch ramification sounds like a fairytale to me. The main reason Akadama is big in bonsai might very well be that it's the stuff that was cheapest in Japan.

With my winters with often frost at night and warmer days I'll stick to something more robust.

 

[james]

Akadama use is controversial. Some hate it, some love it. It is a tool. Would it be fair to say you don’t like a power drill, because you put a hole through your hand?

I have used akadama for 20yrs, the Japanese for centuries. One needs to find the right proportion in your soil mix for your climate, and species of tree. Lastly, hard freezing is known to break down akadama faster. From what you describe and living in Idaho, your hard freezing is likely your biggest culprit. I live in South Dakota. It gets cold here. My akadama breaks down with freezing. I now use a greenhouse, one way to solve the problem.

 

[August44]

So much BS....

The ONLY thing true to me is that it is a Volcanic Soil, cuz Japan is a Volcano.

The heat certainly was not even during this Volcanic period when it was Volcanized.

What happened to it since deposit certainly wasn't equal either.

When/If it is fired to any temperature, will also be uneven.

So in conclusion....

If we think ANY brand is going to ALWAYS be the same....

We should get one of them new Government Crack Smoke kits and quit bonsai.

Sorce

Sounds like you already got one

 

[Frozentreehugger]

So it is great because it breaks down over time, but you should have a version that hardly breaks down?
The whole story about particles in the soil dividing resulting in better branch ramification sounds like a fairytale to me. The main reason Akadama is big in bonsai might very well be that it's the stuff that was cheapest in Japan.

With my winters with often frost at night and warmer days I'll stick to something more robust.

Pretty much where I am at have never tried it . Am willing to try it but considering . My cold climate . And inconsistent quality I. The west . Does not fill me with happiness to buy expensive . Dirt from Japan . One wonders if one of its attractions is it helps ramification . In final stages of bonsai training . By breaking down in to smaller particles . Why not use something that don’t break down . In the size you want more consistent it seems to me

 

[sorce]

Sounds like you already got one

Rational thought is not indicative of crack use!

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

Rational thought is not indicative of crack use!

Sorce

I think he might be suggesting the opposite, which would be in agreement with this statement

 

[ibakey]

My problem is I don't think some of this akadama is properly labeled, and it's done on purpose just to get rid of it. There are no regulations or quality controls set up to protect buyers. The country/factory that produced won't give you a refund and the vender shrugs his shoulders when you ask them. One gets pretty leary and tired of the scams. Just my opinion of course.

Yes, I can relate to that. Whenever I move to a new location, it has always been a trial and error to find a good supplier for soil. But once I do find it, the quality of the soil is pretty much consistent for me from the same supplier.

 

[Zerobear]

I tried akadama last year for the first time. I bought it from a club in Idaho that bought a pallet of it from a known vender. It seemed to be ok until I looked at it early this spring and it has ALL turned into small, sand like particles in the pots. Some of the trees were kept outside protected, some in cold frame that got down to mid 20's several times and some in a heated shed that never got below 34 F. All pots/trees were affected the same.

This is what the akadama looks like now in the pots. Those little red, sand like granules in the pots are what is left of the akadama.
View attachment 424535View attachment 424537View attachment 424538View attachment 424539


This is what the akadama bag looked like.View attachment 424534

From what I have read and experienced, I don't think there is any regulation on processing what is called Akadama and what is shipped to the US. The bag and the product looked pretty authentic, but it was junk! Now I will have to watch that the soil does not plug up and become a drainage problem. Makes me want to jump right up and buy more akadama. It will be nice when we find something to replace akadama with that is real and consistant, and a product of the USA!

I have two soil componenet questions and no place to ask them because I don;t want to start a new thread. Maybe this will work.

1 - Would crushed oyster shell work as a soil component? My local co-op has it in the chicken feed section.

2 - Does anyone use crushed granite chicken grit as a component? Same place has it too.

 

[penumbra]

there are literally thousands of people all over the world using akadama with great success

And many thousands who have abandoned its use as well.
And many thousands who have never found a reason to use it.

 

[ibakey]

And many thousands who have abandoned its use as well.
And many thousands who have never found a reason to use it.

I think Michael Hagedorn in his book Bonsaï Heresy explains it well about the usage of Akadama.

He mentions that the eventual breakdown of akadama in the rootball of old trees is exactly what the Japanese are looking for. Throughout the years, the fine root growth that is inside the compacted broken down akadama is essential to the fine ramification of the branches. The compacted akadama rootball is never touched eventually after many years.

At the moment in the west, I do not know if there is a substitute for akadama where the long term goal or function is for maintaining healthy fine root growth for decades in the root core.

 

[Dav4]

I have two soil componenet questions and no place to ask them because I don;t want to start a new thread. Maybe this will work.

1 - Would crushed oyster shell work as a soil component? My local co-op has it in the chicken feed section.

2 - Does anyone use crushed granite chicken grit as a component? Same place has it too.

Oyster shells are mainly calcium carbonate, which is essentially limestone... very alkaline. I wouldn't add it to bonsai soil. I moved away from crushed granite because many of my trees are large and granite is too heavy. I replaced it with lava.