Akadama lava pumice 111

[cmeg1]

Sorry I am not making links to back up what I read last night,but I have read a few different classifications of akadama.Soft is from surface,hard is from deeper layer and also soft can be classified as flash heated 800 degrees or below and high fired is the stuff that is kiln fired between 1200 and 1400 degrees and is like lava rock.now I am expecting a bag of the double red line hard quality,but from what I understand it is considered a soft akadama because it will eventually degrade.So it seems to me ,you have your various types of soft and then there is the high fired(lava or pumice like).

 

[Smoke]

There is a lot of talk and experiments going on here about how much each retains. Turface over haydite, both over lava , and all three versus akadama.

I would be more interested in hearing the quanity of time it takes for soaked akadama to totaly dry versus haydite, lava, and turface. I have been using soft akadama for thirty years so I already know the answer, of course it would be nice to see some of those cool experiments with beakers and sponges though....

How much water it can hold means nothing if it evaporates in twenty minutes due to porosity.

Carry on....

 

[Anthony]

1200 to 1400 deg.F = 650 deg C to 871deg.C

This temperature is just enough to barely bond pure clay and it has to be held for a period of time / hours in a kiln to reach an even temperature. Otherwise the mass, if large enough will be lower than the above temperatures.

In use such eartheware, done by over primitive firings [ rubber tires/ scrap wood ] down here, will just decay as pots in use. The clay is mixed with a fine sand to open the body and remove the risk of clay explosions.

Since Al showed that there is clay in the Akadama, as well as pumice, the fired bonding will be very weak.
Hence the cycle of decay that follows.

We use as you know sifted broken hollow clay blocks fire evenly to over 980 deg.C - 1796 deg.F
because the clay is tempered with fine sand it remains porous enough to allow the mortar to work on it.
It also holds water well. It does not break down, and is re-used yearly. If it does get smaller [ 5mm ] it is because the particle was already shattered by the machine that is used to smash the deformed fired bricks.

The idea here is to provide the core of the plant with a material that does not with time degrade and as the organic material goes to fine silt, and is washed out or the pillbugs excavative it out, new compost can filter down through the mass.
Old compost forms itself into balls, and does not block drainage holes by the way.

Thus far the tree that are over 30 years old are giving no problems and inspection shows no regeneration of thick roots.
Good Evening.
Anthony

 

[JudyB]

There is a lot of talk and experiments going on here about how much each retains. Turface over haydite, both over lava , and all three versus akadama.

I would be more interested in hearing the quanity of time it takes for soaked akadama to totaly dry versus haydite, lava, and turface. I have been using soft akadama for thirty years so I already know the answer, of course it would be nice to see some of those cool experiments with beakers and sponges though....

How much water it can hold means nothing if it evaporates in twenty minutes due to porosity.

Carry on....

Yes Al, that's what I'm starting to realize with all of this. I'm thinking that it's not only how much water it (the soil) will uptake, (and I'm not sure it's even relevant how much it retains) but how much the water is available for the plant to uptake.

I just want to make sure the differences between the hard and soft akadama do not negate the advantages of the way akadama works. (before I buy it if possible... )
Thanks!

 

[fore]

I have never even touched the stuff yet,it is in the mail,but on Colin Lewis' website on the part2 of soils mineral', I was sold on akadama.He sais' the freeze and thaw is not a problem.

I want to read that article. I've been using also soft akadama in a few mixes. One is an itoigawa that I've only had a yr, and I know junipers don't like to be repotted often, so I am a bit concerned about freeze/thaw breakdown, you read it takes 2 yrs to breakdown. Well that's not enough time b/w repots. Thanks for mentioning Colin's article, it'd be nice to know I don't have to worry about breakdown.

 

[cmeg1]

Boons posts

I did a search on Boons posts here.Lots of great info.If using a Boon mix,he sais', that the high fired volcanic portion of the mix keeps the soft akadama together when it may break down.He also stated,in one of his posts,that in japan there is lots of regions that have freeze and thaw conditions and they have been just fine with akadama.It does not take long at all to search his posts in the member section cause' it seems he made very few in the time he has been a member.Great advice though.post #13 and # 15 of 'akadama questions'

 

[Erndogy]

I use a 1:1:1 akadama or calidama:scoria: pumice or hyuga mix for almost all of my trees without fail.......

nathanbs,
Where do you get calidama? I looked for it for a while and the closest I got was House of Bonsai. Vicky told me she stopped carrying it because people said it broke down and clogged their pots.

So you use it instead of akadama and it works for you. I would like to try some. How do I get my hands on some?

Thanks

Ernie

 

[JudyB]

HOB carries akadama. 2 different types, the harder type they seem to only have in the smaller size. they have the regular (read soft) in the medium.
Hollow Creek also carries the hard version and they have it in the medium sizes.
Wee tree carries akadama in small size and also a mix with akadama lava and pumice.

I've been looking around a lot for this, and these seem to be the most affordable spots for akadama.

I've decided to get some of the super hard, and some of the soft, and mix the two, to get the benefits of both.

 

[cmeg1]

I received a bag of the medium size hard quality(soft) from Manhattan Bonsai.Double Redline.Right off the bat,it seems very stable.You can break it with your fingers.I screened it to get two sizes.About 1/3 is the smaller particles.And the rest is larger particles.Most of my pots are shallow 7"x9"x1.75",so I prefer the smaller cut for them.I made a layer on the bottom of the larger pieces.They are not that much larger.And they would probably be fine in more bigger and deeper pots.Especially if roots eventually grow through the particles anyway.For my shallow pots,I am considering 100% soft akadama.I am going to watch this soil for the next 24 hours to see how it dries down.Will probably buy some small grade so I can make triple layers,I like that.I will see what the Boon mix is like in a large pot I have for my big elm.I will also have some high fired akadama,maybe I will just use it in the mix,or return it.
A quarter for size reference.

 

[nathanbs]

nathanbs,
Where do you get calidama? I looked for it for a while and the closest I got was House of Bonsai. Vicky told me she stopped carrying it because people said it broke down and clogged their pots.

So you use it instead of akadama and it works for you. I would like to try some. How do I get my hands on some?

Thanks

Ernie

Calidama is pretty tough, no way it breaks down faster or any differently than akadama, if anything i would wager it breaks down slower. A guy by the name of Glenn Vanwinkle is the sole manufacturer and distributor of it as far as i know. He is out of the fresno area. The only problem is that the last time i got it he mixes it with scoria which isnt a problem although i think it kinda skewes the weight and price aspect. Next time im going to ask him for pure calidama no scoria and hope for the same price otherwise akadama is almost the same price

 

[Smoke]

Calidama is pretty tough, no way it breaks down faster or any differently than akadama, if anything i would wager it breaks down slower. A guy by the name of Glenn Vanwinkle is the sole manufacturer and distributor of it as far as i know. He is out of the fresno area. The only problem is that the last time i got it he mixes it with scoria which isnt a problem although i think it kinda skewes the weight and price aspect. Next time im going to ask him for pure calidama no scoria and hope for the same price otherwise akadama is almost the same price

Here is a picture of the ole calidama crusher as well as the slanted sifter.

This stuff will absolutely not break down. It is hardpan and will last decades with nary a grain of seperation.

For more on the strength and longivity of hardpan read some of these links. This place has been here for a hundred + years and if made from akadama would have melted away decades ago.....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forestiere_Underground_Gardens

http://historicfresno.org/nrhp/forest.htm

 

[Smoke]

I can't offer volumes of scientific study nor do I wish to. What I can offer is practicle use of a product over a period of many years. I can't give advice for those of you that live in the east and have huge varitaions of weather and freeze thaw cycles that I know nothing about. So each person must be diligent and find what works for them.

I can share what I know for those lucky enough to live in a more temperate climate with a long growing season and low humidity. Akadama has allowed me to fine tune the soil I use to allow me to water only ONCE per day, and not kill my plants. I live in a desert type climate with a realitive humidty of about 10 percent, so it is dry here. This allows not only me, but my plants to survive as long as they are hydrated. Organics in the way of compost does not fullfill this criteria. I have tried. Only akadama and its ability to hydrate for long periods of time allow me to grow in this area.

This is the month by month for June, July, August and September. It is hot here. Turface does not cut it. Dry in 15 minutes tops. Haydite while better dries as fast. Only the clay particle will outlast the intense Fresno heat. Remember that when you look at these daily temps, this is around 99 degrees by 10 AM and well over a 100 at 10PM. That is a day over a hundred degrees for 12 hours a day.

 

[Smoke]

These are some pictures I just took in the dark of tridents, IN FULL SUN still pushing new red growth on Sept. 25 with a few months still to go till significant cooling.

Anyone that grows trident, and I mean lots of tridents understands that tridents push red growth in the spring turning to green and then later on in late spring and summer will produce new growth that is significantly green. It is not untill the fall spring here that the tridents begin to again push new red growth. It is a pleasing sight from the past hot summer.


Cheers all.

The last few months have been pretty crappy here. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer three weeks ago, and will undergo a single mastectomy next Tuesday. I was in the Emergency room last Sat. with 8 Kidney stones. The largest was equivilent to three grains of rice. THATS HUGE!! I suffer with the stones constantly and pass around 5 to 8 about every two years. I'll update on my wife next week.

 

[cmeg1]

Hang in there Smoke,and your wife too.I hope she makes a speedy recovery.

 

[bonsaibp]

Sorry to hear about the medical issues- hope and pray all will turn out for the best.

 

[Erndogy]

I am sorry to hear about you and your wife's medical issues Al. I hope all goes well with her surgery and she recovers quickly.

Ernie

 

[Erndogy]

Calidama is pretty tough, no way it breaks down faster or any differently than akadama, if anything i would wager it breaks down slower. A guy by the name of Glenn Vanwinkle is the sole manufacturer and distributor of it as far as i know. He is out of the fresno area....

This stuff will absolutely not break down. It is hardpan and will last decades with nary a grain of seperation......

Well, I must have misunderstood what she told me or I remember wrong...(I remember wrong a lot. Just ask my wife...) I do remember her telling me a lot of people told her they didn't like it. It could be that its just not a substitute for akadama as Smoke said in a post a while back.

I am using akadama in my maples, both trident and JGMs, and I did get leaf burn on my tridents. I planted some in 1:1:1 akadama, pumice or hyuga, lava mix or some other mixture with no more that 1/3 akadama(I did some experimenting), and they were doing really good until about mid august when it really started heating up. Some are under shade cloth and some are in full sun and all got leaf burn to varying degrees.

I hadn't thought of using more than 1/3 akadama in my soil mix but I guess that is going to change come spring. I have noticed a lot of water retention with the akadama mixes though. I usually only water once a day and even on the hottest days they never dry completely. So maybe its the other qualities in akadama that help against leaf burn in tridents besides water retention. I have a couple sweet gum trees in the same 1:1:1 mix in pond baskets that are growing extremely well, and was surprised at the amount of water that comes out of the pot even after a day in 100 degree weather.

Ernie

 

[Erndogy]

.....A guy by the name of Glenn Vanwinkle is the sole manufacturer and distributor of it as far as i know. He is out of the fresno area...im going to ask him for pure calidama no scoria and hope for the same price otherwise akadama is almost the same price

I'm out in Ontario. Would it be possible for me to get some when you get some if it costs about the same as akadama? That's if it's not any trouble. I get my akadama at HOB. Its the only place around here I know has it.

Thanks

Ernie

 

[Erndogy]

HOB carries akadama. 2 different types, the harder type they seem to only have in the smaller size. they have the regular (read soft) in the medium.
Hollow Creek also carries the hard version and they have it in the medium sizes.
Wee tree carries akadama in small size and also a mix with akadama lava and pumice.

I've been looking around a lot for this, and these seem to be the most affordable spots for akadama.

I've decided to get some of the super hard, and some of the soft, and mix the two, to get the benefits of both.

If I remember right, , Vicky at the HOB recommends the hard stuff only for large JBP. I got a bag of the hard stuff also but I have not opened it to check how much harder it is than the regular akadama.

Ernie

 

[JudyB]

Smoke,
At last! - a reason to wear the pink thong in public, when you go to the cancer survivor events with your wife, who can beat this!!! There is a lot of support out there for you guys, take advantage of it, it can make all the difference. There is a lot of support here as well. Take care, -J