Akadama lava pumice 111

cmeg1

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Do you think it would be possible to water this soil mix in the morning,go to work,then water when you get home from work(if needed).Or is this a mix that needs constant monitoring.In bonsai pots.I have been purchasing some akadama as a start of better quality soil components to better my bonsai.I got some high fired medium and small and some hard quality medium(soft low fire) in the mail on way.
 
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I use 95% pummice 5% bark in my trees here in the summer heat of Sydney, Australia without any problems. I use a layer of phagnum over the top surface of the pot which helps to keep the rate drying out even between the top and bottom of the pot. When using pumice the level of water retention comes down to what particle size you chose. The smaller the particle size, the more water gets retained for longer. When chosing particles you need to consider the overall surface area of particles in the pot, the larger the particles the less surface area you in total to hold water etc. For my trees in bonsai pots i use 3mm and for trees growing in grow boxes i use 4-6mm.

For my tiny trees i tend to use 2mm pumice to allow for finer root spread and also for water holding ability.

With the above i only water once a day or once every 2-3 days here in spring right now. If in doubt do what i do and stick a small piece of chopstick or skewer into the pot and then pull this out before watering. This method will allow you to see if the pot is still moist and to what level within the pot. Once you do this for a while you will get the know the individual tree/pot needs. Hope that helps....
 
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Yea,I am guessing I could maybe use the Boon mix in a big deep pot.For my mini brooms I am thinking pure akadama.Total guess work.I have never even touched the stuff.My mini brooms are in shallow ,small containers.My deep cold frame will only let a smidgeon of frost on the surface of the soil.or I could put them under the mobile home and they probably won't even freeze.
 
Do you think it would be possible to water this soil mix in the morning,go to work,then water when you get home from work(if needed).Or is this a mix that needs constant monitoring.In bonsai pots.I have been purchasing some akadama as a start of better quality soil components to better my bonsai.I got some high fired medium and small and some hard quality medium(soft) in the mail on way.


Your mix is good, that's what I use too which I learned about from my teacher Boon. However, as Boon will tell you this is a very common mix that Professionals in Japan use, or they will use a variation of it. One note about Akadama is that you generally don't want it high fired. If it's too hard from being fired it acts closer to pumice or lava and will not have the type of water retention capabilities that are desirable.

In terms of frequency of watering, it's going to depend on the type of tree, soil mix and size of the pot. If you have to work for long periods of the day, then you are much more limited on when you can water compared with pro's in Japan. However that does not mean you can't have healthy trees. I live in a very moderate climate where the weather does not vary frequently and I work full time. I water most frequently once per day. However often in the summer it jumps to twice a day and smaller pots can be 3-5 times a day if I can manage. In the Winter it can be once a day or every other day depending on the temp outside, conditions, size of pot, etc.
 
Yea,thanks yenling.i have some high fired on the way.After I bought it I started to realize it may be the low fired propor ties that might appeal to me.So I also bought a bag of medium low fire.Should be here in a coue days.Thanks again
 
Yea,I am guessing I could maybe use the Boon mix in a big deep pot/QUOTE]

Although this might seem to make sense at first, what you'll find is that this will encourage deep roots and make it very difficult to keep your shallow surface roots healthy. When you pour water through a granular medium the water will initially saturate all the pore space. When you stop watering, the gravitational water will drain away, leaving a saturated zone at the bottom of the pot and decreasing saturation upwards. So a deep pot will have lower water saturations on the surface than a shallow one.

Try an experiment - take a sponge and wet it thoroughly. Set it flat on your counter and watch the water drain away. You won't have to wait long, and when it's finished, you'll see a saturated zone on the bottom of the sponge and the top of the sponge will be dry. Next take the sponge and stand it on end and watch the amount of water that drains out. When it's done draining away, you'll be left with the same thickness of saturated zone at the bottom of the sponge. The same volume of sponge will hold far less water oriented vertically than laying flat. It's the same in a bonsai pot - substrate in shallow pots hold more water than an equivalent volume in deep pots. And more water is available for the surface roots to grow than in a deep pot.

If your worried about watering mid-day (I know it can get hot in the summers where you live), you have some options:

1) cut the grain size. A finer-grained medium will hold more water than a coarse-grained medium.
2) use more water retentive components. The double-red line brand of akadama and the brand with the big green slash going diagonally across the bag are NOT that highly water retentive. Seramis and turface both hold more water. Organics also hold more water. I hope I'm not speaking out of place for Boon, but the only one of these components I've heard him offer tacit approval for is the seramis. Many others here have had success with the other components, but if Boon is your teacher, you should use the mix he recommends. He does so because of his experience with trees in that medium - they respond predictably to the methods he teaches. They won't if you mix in a bunch of turface or pine bark.
3) put some sphagnum moss on the top of the soil. This is quite effective in reducing evaporative loss.
4) install a watering system. This can be done very cheaply and is how i do my midday watering.

Best of luck
Scott
 
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Thanks.I was relieved to find the thread "help Smoke". I learned that you can increase the akadama in the Boon mix for better water retention.I am cultivating moss to shred and inoculate my pots with,we will see.
 
Don't confuse sphagnum moss covering with growing actual moss on your pot soil....
Thanks,Judy.I am considering inoculating the shredded white sphagnum with shredded live moss in spring in the pot.I have heard of success that way,and I think it looks neater when it grows in early summer.Refer too 'crataegus Bonsai' blog'the moss myth'.I really need to learn to make links,sorry.
 
I bought 3 gallons of Boon mix.How you going to see how a soil is till' you buy some.I am glad I have a small collection.I can afford some soft akadama and pre made Boon mix every two years.I am thinking about returning the fired akadama without even opening the package.I hear it is essentially like lava.I'd rather just buy the pre made Boon mix.
 
Owen Reich wrote a really great article about sphagnum moss for our local club newsletter. I wonder if he would allow a copy of it here. It goes into great detail about how to soak and use it.
Owen?
 
I use a 1:1:1 akadama or calidama:scoria: pumice or hyuga mix for almost all of my trees without fail. My summer time temps reach 100 +/- 3 degrees and on those days I water at 6:30 am and 5:30 pm when I get home. I'm only watering about 20% of my trees at 5:30pm the rest are fine and the rest of the year I only water at 6:30 am one time if needed. I use a granule size of 1/8-1/4" removing the 1/4" if i want it to stay wetter and removing the 1/8" if I want it drier. I use a sphagnum moss/dried green moss top dressing on new repots with the exception of conifers. I only top dress them if roots are close to the surface and/or they are in a shallow pot.
 
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I would like to ask anone who uses the hard fired akadama if the is a significant difference in water retention, if it is basically like lava, I would like to know. I'm planning on going to an akadama based soil next year, and was planning on using the high fired stuff in my freeze thaw climate. I would like any and all opinions.
 
depending at what temp it is allegedly high fired the CEC of it can be lost. My speculations and that of others is that it is truly not high fired it is only reported as such so that it would be safe for import.
 
Screening soil

I have also read that for deciduous trees that in Japan they do not sift the smaller particles out, only for conifers. Makes sense as the smaller particles will keep it moister.
 
I would like to ask anone who uses the hard fired akadama if the is a significant difference in water retention, if it is basically like lava, I would like to know. I'm planning on going to an akadama based soil next year, and was planning on using the high fired stuff in my freeze thaw climate. I would like any and all opinions.

http://bonsaistudygroup.com/general-discussion/substrate-and-water-retention/msg17832/#msg17832

Sorry to link from another discussion board, but I posted all the results there.

- Scott
 
http://bonsaistudygroup.com/general-discussion/substrate-and-water-retention/msg17832/#msg17832

Sorry to link from another discussion board, but I posted all the results there.

- Scott

Hi Scott, I was part of this conversation over there, and used haydite this summer. I found that although in my test it was pretty close to turface in it's uptake of water, the plants did not stay as hydrated as long as with turface based soil. Could be that uptake is not all the information needed to base all results on. Perhaps it's not only uptake, but availability as well...

What I was wondering with my question, is the difference between "hard fired akadama", and "double line akadama". I don't seem to be able to find comparisons on these, but seems like the thought that it is basically a lava when hard fired, doesn't make it worth the money that it costs.
 
Freeze thaw

I would like to ask anone who uses the hard fired akadama if the is a significant difference in water retention, if it is basically like lava, I would like to know. I'm planning on going to an akadama based soil next year, and was planning on using the high fired stuff in my freeze thaw climate. I would like any and all opinions.
I have never even touched the stuff yet,it is in the mail,but on Colin Lewis' website on the part2 of soils mineral', I was sold on akadama.He sais' the freeze and thaw is not a problem.
 
Hi Scott, I was part of this conversation over there, and used haydite this summer. I found that although in my test it was pretty close to turface in it's uptake of water, the plants did not stay as hydrated as long as with turface based soil. Could be that uptake is not all the information needed to base all results on. Perhaps it's not only uptake, but availability as well...

What I was wondering with my question, is the difference between "hard fired akadama", and "double line akadama". I don't seem to be able to find comparisons on these, but seems like the thought that it is basically a lava when hard fired, doesn't make it worth the money that it costs.

On the bag for double red line akadama it describes it as "hard quality".

8032d49f901c9e57a8b48f0b5c19.jpg

I've worked with it and the bag with the big green slash across it.

photo.jpg

I see no appreciable difference between the two from a water retention perspective. I've never worked with any other brand of akadama, so I can't really comment more on that question.

In terms of haydite, I hadn't included it in the tests I wrote about on the other forum. I have tested it, however, and, in short, turface holds more water than haydite. Now turface is quite a bit finer grained than haydite, but even eliminating this variable by sieving an equivalent size fraction of each, turface is still more water retentive. There are a couple of possible reasons why.

First, some background. Water storage in the substrate is in one of two types of porosity - intra- (within grains) or inter- (between grains) granular.

For the water storage in the intergranular pore space you basically have a trade-off between drainage and water storage. Better drainage = worse water storage and vice-versa. There are three factors that control the amount of water storage between the grains in the intergranular pore space - the grain size, the grain shape, and sorting. Finer grained substrate will have about the same porosity as a coarse grained substrate, but the water saturation in the pores after the graviational water drains away will be much higher. Rounded grains will have a higher porosity and lower intergranular pore saturation than angular grains. And a poorly sorted substrate will have higher water saturation and worse drainage than a substrate with a uniform grain size. Here's a chart summarizing all this:

Untitled.001.jpg

For the water storage in the intragranular pore space, you're basically dependent on the type of grain that your dealing with. But this is the good kind of water storage because it won't muck with the drainage.

Now with the simple tests I wrote about in the previous post, there's really no way to tell whether the water storage was of the inter or intragranular sort. But I have my suspicions. Turface tends to run pretty angular and haydite tends to run pretty rounded. I suspect that this is probably accounts for much of the difference and that neither turface or haydite holds much intragranular water.

- Scott
 
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