Acer palmatum
- Thread starter ConorDash
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- acer palmatum maple
Hi Pete,
You make a very good and silent point.
Very much thanks for that.
You have ringed some of the nodes, but basically the reason i didnt cut to those is because I wasn't brave enough to cut SO MUCH off and leave it down to 1 node on each branch, to pop.
If it doesn't pop buds, then surely, that branch is all gone, right?
Given any experience you have with Acer P, do you think it would be safe to cut back to there?
I assume the red cut marks, are your advise to remove too?
Honestly, Im happy to go out there now and cut the bastards off. They need regrowing, there's no 2 ways about it. For taper and movement, Ill wire the new growth in to the right places. The reason I didn't was simply inexperience of not knowing how it'll respond. Whereas I could, make my mistakes and waste a year. Or I could research, ask, call upon others experience and learn faster. Why wouldn't I want to do that. Hence why many of us are here on a forum
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Rob_phillips
Chumono
First of all mate i think the tree needs that to make the tree more compact it may be scary but on 5 years time you will Look back and be like I am so glad I did that but make sure you do it at the right time of year when the tree is really healthy.Hi Pete,
You make a very good and silent point.
Very much thanks for that.
You have ringed some of the nodes, but basically the reason i didnt cut to those is because I wasn't brave enough to cut SO MUCH off and leave it down to 1 node on each branch, to pop.
If it doesn't pop buds, then surely, that branch is all gone, right?
Given any experience you have with Acer P, do you think it would be safe to cut back to there?
I assume the red cut marks, are your advise to remove too?
Honestly, Im happy to go out there now and cut the bastards off. They need regrowing, there's no 2 ways about it. For taper and movement, Ill wire the new growth in to the right places. The reason I didn't was simply inexperience of not knowing how it'll respond. Whereas I could, make my mistakes and waste a year. Or I could research, ask, call upon others experience and learn faster. Why wouldn't I want to do that. Hence why many of us are here on a forum
Yes for sure, no arguments lol, no problem at all with that! And the reason I cut back now was because I believe it is healthy. What I gotta find out, some how, is if its safe to cut back that drastic now or if I should use 6-12months to cut back in 2 stages.
What do you think?
Im all for not wasting time, but also taking time to do it right.
The red cut marks are showing branches I would remove from this point of view, for example growing from inside of a curve, twice more besause there is a bar branch and some branches that should be "reduced to two". Put your tree on a turntable and select a direction which you want to go and than you can cut redundant branches. This is safe.
Cutting to nodes (half way between two nodes) this time of year...wait for a maple expert advice. Best to follow what Smoke typed above. Of course watch response and health of your tree.
papymandarin
Shohin
there is much less risks to cut drastically now after spring growth has matured than in early spring or fall (not even talking about the risks of fungal contamination by doing big cuts at these periods in our climate) regarding failure to bud/die back in my experience.
Cattwooduk
Shohin
I have a little princess I dug from the ground and cut back massively last year and put in a training pot. I was planning on leaving it 2 years to regain strength before I cut it back again. I should have cut it back further last year but wimped out and now have to go again.
I've been looking at the tree and it's put on way more vigorous growth than I expected it would so tonight I'm going to cut it back again. I'll post later what it was before I lifted it, first cut and then today's cut back.
Be brave Conor! I'm not trying to kill any of my trees but also not letting myself get too attached to anything yet. So far I haven't killed anything but I have thrown away half a dozen pieces of material I either bought or dug up naively thinking were good for bonsai.
You could spend the whole season of potential work procrastinating and deciding what to do and before you know it we'll be back to spring 2019, then you'll ask whether you should cut back hard or not. Get the snips out!
I've been looking at the tree and it's put on way more vigorous growth than I expected it would so tonight I'm going to cut it back again. I'll post later what it was before I lifted it, first cut and then today's cut back.
Be brave Conor! I'm not trying to kill any of my trees but also not letting myself get too attached to anything yet. So far I haven't killed anything but I have thrown away half a dozen pieces of material I either bought or dug up naively thinking were good for bonsai.
You could spend the whole season of potential work procrastinating and deciding what to do and before you know it we'll be back to spring 2019, then you'll ask whether you should cut back hard or not. Get the snips out!
barrosinc
Masterpiece
you have a bud down there already.
Get this tree vigorous this year, gather a lot of energy and cut back to the nodes pointed out in the last image or cut back to the trunk. You should get buds.
Rob_phillips
Chumono
Well what did you do
Cattwooduk
Shohin
This tree has been my guinea pig since last year and I'm just experimenting more or less! Could have left it another year but it's real vigorous so I thought what the hell.
I'll leave it at least a couple of years now and then ground layer a new root base above the big knobbly chunk on the trunk. It has pretty small leaves so it's going to be a wee tree!
Back to a little stick in a pot now!
I'll leave it at least a couple of years now and then ground layer a new root base above the big knobbly chunk on the trunk. It has pretty small leaves so it's going to be a wee tree!
Back to a little stick in a pot now!
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Think about this. Stop, ponder the thought and then attach reasoning. "Hey self, Everyone that I think I trust is saying to cut back to short nodes close to the trunk....I'm not that brave and don't want to risk losing possible branches or time to inexperience and not knowing"
Sounds reasonable right.....
How about if you just do one branch cut back to the closest node on the trunk. Pick the branch you would be confortable losing right...Then you can remove all doubt. You get to see how the magic of nature works, you get a good branch cut back, and gain the confidence to remove them close next year. You will know how the tree will respond and learn how to step back and reason things out and apply common sense. If I were in your shoes I can see how removing all the branches would seem risky, (for me nothing), but doing one will allow you to see how to work it and how best to prepare for next year. Keep in mind that just pruning back to that first node and then just sitting back and watching is not what to do. Once you make the cut you have to be prepared to keep up with it or you will just have another branch starting from a different place with 3 inch internodes....right???
Win, Win Win.
All one can do here is make comments, you have to be the one to make the final decisions.
I finished work, went to the dentist, got bad news and been in a bad mood ever since lol.
It’s cheered me up to see so many replies, and such helpful ones (not that I need cheering up, I’m not a baby for god sake lol).
General consensus seems that the tree will bounce back fine if I cut back even more now.
I think I could wait till fall, as suggested, watch how the tree responds, learn from that and cut back further in spring.
But that would “waste” 6-8 months.
Seems to me plenty of very experienced people here believe it will bounce back fine, which is great. It’s your guys experience which I wanted to draw upon. I hope in a number of years my experience with my own trees, tied with that conveyed to me by others such as yourselves, can help others.
Saturday morning, I’ll stick it back on the table and cut back further. I’ll start as a mean to go on, no half measures.
My maple will send out new buds aplenty, and I’ll prune accordingly.
Right. I’ll keep up with the pruning, using precisely what you have told me and shown me in your diagram. It’s extremely useful. I do like your idea of being comfortable, cutting back one, watching response, etc, but you are right, as are others contributing their time towards my thread, I’ll cut back more.
Worst case scenario? Most or all branches die back, trunk survives and takes a long time to bounce back.. the branches are crap any way. Or the tree dies, which I do think is super unlikely, given people’s responses here. It’d be a shame to lose it, I’ve grown attached, but who are we kidding, there are plenty more trees out there. And I’ll have learnt valuable lessons.
Wow, balls to the wall.. you went for it. Please let me know how this goes, or if there’s a thread on it, I’ll find it.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
here are some options i can see to cut back to for branch taper, theres probably others, but im just using the close up image posted
View attachment 194712
in the yellow circle you have three branches coming from one, your plan to let these grow out will inevitably produce an ugly bulge. we've discussed crotches and how you only want two coming from one a few times now Conar mate...
the red cuts are either points at which you can cut back harder to a shoot closer to the trunk or a dormant node, im quite certain a maple will bud out at a dormant node. someone also mentioned this is possible in the above comments, can't remember what post. these cuts will likely activate more interior budding.
top of the pic, there are also viable shoots coming from the branch situated to the right of the uro. unless youre trying to grow out the leader there, it can also be cut back to a thinner shoot.
so unless your plan is to fatten up the primary branching then, these branches can for the most part be cut back much harder.
to give you an idea, here's an elm that i cut back to shoots further back, this is a drastic cut back
2017-06-04_07-35-44 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
june 2017 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
july 2017 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
Jan 2018 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
Sorry I didn’t reply to this sooner.
“produce an ugly bulge. we've discussed crotches and how you only want two coming from one a few times now Conar mate...
You don’t need to remind me of that one lol, I get it. I posted about that location and mentioned about a knuckle, in one of my previous posts here
. My problem on that location was not knowing which to cut back or keep. It did have 5, I removed the other 2 just didn’t know which others to keep.I’ll cut this back, in conjunction with the experienced advice I’ve received here.
The key to all of this, the thing I’ve been trying to get answered which has now been answered is: How far can i cut back, safely?
This is something I could either try and learn over 2-3 years, or I could draw upon others experience and advice, in a forum of some kind.
Some might not like that, but in 2018, I don’t see why we wouldn’t do that form of research.
Anyway, message received, I’m going to cut back further: I can already see bright red buds appearing in places. Hopefully this means the tree is as strong and healthy as I thought.
This forum has been rough but coming out the other side now and I’m not the only one who learnt from it. Who knew I was such a painful student!
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Sorry I didn’t reply to this sooner.
“produce an ugly bulge. we've discussed crotches and how you only want two coming from one a few times now Conar mate...
You don’t need to remind me of that one lol, I get it. I posted about that location and mentioned about a knuckle, in one of my previous posts here
I’ll cut this back, in conjunction with the experienced advice I’ve received here.
The key to all of this, the thing I’ve been trying to get answered which has now been answered is: How far can i cut back, safely?
This is something I could either try and learn over 2-3 years, or I could draw upon others experience and advice, in a forum of some kind.
Some might not like that, but in 2018, I don’t see why we wouldn’t do that form of research.
Anyway, message received, I’m going to cut back further: I can already see bright red buds appearing in places. Hopefully this means the tree is as strong and healthy as I thought.
This forum has been rough but coming out the other side now and I’m not the only one who learnt from it. Who knew I was such a painful student!
you should look to be cutting back to the more interesting shoots..the ones with the most movement or character traits and are most in harmony with your design. took me a while to get that part too.G potter goes through this procedure in pruning deciduous trees. watched that a few times before i got it?
tbf i have explained quite a few times on how hard you can cut back to on deciduous trees and showed you numerous photos.
sure its good to hear it from other experienced folk too.glad to see its much clearer now...do show us the results after the cut back....snip snip snip?
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
the process of forking branches, making two from one is described in detail here, 1:40 in on an oak branch, applies to all deciduous, at 7:00 this process is described again, but while working the tree, 7:45 on, pruning for a change of direction. because although you'll be doing a more drastic prune, you still want to be picking the best shoots available to you. this video was invaluable to me when i had a load of crappy, scraggly elms piling up, was no need to pay for a workshop with resources like these.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
to sum up, different example, drastic cut on a maple, at the end result you can see the tree hasnt just been pruned aimlessly, its been cut back to the best shoots that give the tree branches with taper and movement, shortest nodes etc, harder in the apex. my work is done here
Thanks.
I think one of my disconnects was that this can be applied to all deciduous.
The vids you posted and advice before, as we have spoken at length about elms, I started to funnel that knowledge in to the elm category, not knowing what else this applies.
I have complete confidence in my Elms reactions and abilities to back bud when pruning, but maples I started at 0. That was one of my problems.
Also cutting back to more interesting branching, yes, I will bear that in mind.
I’ll try getting movement in to them with wire too. The clip and grow of elms, I know means basically no wire but unsure that’s completely accurate on maples?
Anyways, Smoke has already advised on that so no need to go over that.
Your work is done here lol, I’ll post pics once done and hope it’s enough! If it’s not, I’ll go back and do more till it’s right.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Practice trees?
Yours not using real ones?
