Acer palmatum

[dirk hoorelbeke]

The tree is happy, the black tips where from the chilly wind we had. Make sure you have a design in your head, so you can interact when certain branches are too thick or straight. For te rest, let it grow as you are doing. Not all people can wait long enough to cut. Good job.

 

[ConorDash]

The tree is happy, the black tips where from the chilly wind we had. Make sure you have a design in your head, so you can interact when certain branches are too thick or straight. For te rest, let it grow as you are doing. Not all people can wait long enough to cut. Good job.

Yeah, I have been checking the big primaries. Yesterday evening I looked at the bigger one you see in the previous pics, and decided its time to remove. Its really done well and its heavy, it will remain the heaviest branch on the tree, and its the bottom. I am happy with it.
I have pruned back 2 other secondary branches from the apex, as they are the appropriate size. The tree is at different stages all over it, some growing out and some not, so I am keeping an eye.
Its honestly been a nightmare to wait for these 2 big primaries to grow...!!

Going to try and root the big primary I remove.. I've never had much success with a soft/semi-hardwood cutting, we will see.

 

[ConorDash]

And off the big boy goes... another small secondary shortened. Pics are just for removal of big branch and the proportions.

got rained on, but got some wire to adjust. The thin wire I put on has been outweighed and it’s not strong enough to hold the branches up.

 

[ConorDash]

Still awaiting response to some smaller branches being cut.
However, looks like it didn’t like it.. the 2 pairs that have been left on each shoot have started to crisp up. The tree has been watered very well and kept in good conditions in terms of wind protection.

Other shoots are fine.



my concern here is, if those leaves die which they definitely will with a week, judging by their state, will the dormant buds in those same leaf nodes, take over. If they don’t, I’ll lose the branches and lose progress I’ve made.

This tree is not worth this much hassle. Taught me a lot but at some point those lessons should show, but they aren’t.

 

[ajm55555]

Still awaiting response to some smaller branches being cut.
However, looks like it didn’t like it.. the 2 pairs that have been left on each shoot have started to crisp up

The same, maybe, is happening to my Deshojo Conor, as you might remember. After I pruned the long shoots of the first growth, all the old leaves are starting to slowly crisp up from the tips and finally die. I'm removing them as soon as it's clear they're doomed. I thought it was the sun but I'm not so sure anymore. I hope it back buds. There are a couple of small new buds developing on a branch but it's too early to be optimistic.

 

[ConorDash]

The same, maybe, is happening to my Deshojo Conor, as you might remember. After I pruned the long shoots of the first growth, all the old leaves are starting to slowly crisp up from the tips and finally die. I'm removing them as soon as it's clear they're doomed. I thought it was the sun but I'm not so sure anymore. I hope it back buds. There are a couple of small new buds developing on a branch but it's too early to be optimistic.
View attachment 309281

Same circumstance, slightly different looking but too similar to be a coincidence. I don't believe mine has a fungal issue or pest, although it has been sprayed for both recently in any case. I won't remove the leaves, ill let them fall off.
I prefer to let nature do it for me, if thats the way it is going + a much more practical reason, the petioles protect the bud. Id like to keep as much protection for the bud as possible.

 

[ajm55555]

I won't remove the leaves, ill let them fall off.
I prefer to let nature do it for me, if thats the way it is going + a much more practical reason, the petioles protect the bud. Id like to keep as much protection for the bud as possible.

Agreed. I removed only the completely dried up leaves. As you can see from the picture, I leave the petioles and cut right at the base of the leaf.

 

[ajm55555]

Last year I was in a similar situation but it was the end of July! I don't understand why it's happening this year so early in the season. I hope it's just leaf burns and nothing else though.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Still awaiting response to some smaller branches being cut.
However, looks like it didn’t like it.. the 2 pairs that have been left on each shoot have started to crisp up. The tree has been watered very well and kept in good conditions in terms of wind protection.

Other shoots are fine.
View attachment 309273
View attachment 309274

my concern here is, if those leaves die which they definitely will with a week, judging by their state, will the dormant buds in those same leaf nodes, take over. If they don’t, I’ll lose the branches and lose progress I’ve made.

This tree is not worth this much hassle. Taught me a lot but at some point those lessons should show, but they aren’t.

Those leaves look to need some iron supplement my friend...I would hope the buds would recover...I think it's a wait and see sort of game. But...I'm rooting for positive results. Good luck!

 

[ConorDash]

Those leaves look to need some iron supplement my friend...I would hope the buds would recover...I think it's a wait and see sort of game. But...I'm rooting for positive results. Good luck!

Thanks. I could help with that, i have some seaweed extract I've used in the past. Not used it this year though, my other 2 ferts should be providing enough.
Glad to know my hope that the buds will come through, is not too silly. Ill apply some seaweed fert in the next few weeks of waterings, even if this isn't the cause, it can't hurt!
Thanks,

 

[Rob_phillips]

Personally I still think this trees issues are in The roots add that to the use of kitty litter as my option on it as a bulk substrate is that it causes more issues than not.
As it is so water absorbant and it can suck the water out of the roots and also it stays so wet too.
It can be use in a mix say 10% of it to add to an akadama lava and pumace and pime bark or what ever you fancy it can add something different to a mix like that.
but in my opinion there are so many better substrates out there that do a 100% better job than that stuff even with the bark you have added.
sorry i am not a fan of it.
i think the leaves in question got caught out by a late frost and have been damaged by that i had the same thing on the only maple i forgot to bring in think it was in April or May we had a cold snap here and the temp kept dropping down to freezing a few times even though we didn't get a major frost.

 

[ConorDash]

Personally I still think this trees issues are in The roots add that to the use of kitty litter as my option on it as a bulk substrate is that it causes more issues than not.
As it is so water absorbant and it can suck the water out of the roots and also it stays so wet too.
It can be use in a mix say 10% of it to add to an akadama lava and pumace and pime bark or what ever you fancy it can add something different to a mix like that.
but in my opinion there are so many better substrates out there that do a 100% better job than that stuff even with the bark you have added.
sorry i am not a fan of it.
i think the leaves in question got caught out by a late frost and have been damaged by that i had the same thing on the only maple i forgot to bring in think it was in April or May we had a cold snap here and the temp kept dropping down to freezing a few times even though we didn't get a major frost.

Hi Rob, its been a while since I have had you post.
Thats easy to address mate, it was repoted this Spring in to a different mix . I dont blame you for not reading back more lol, there are a lot of pages. It is now in a mostly inorganic substrate of molar clay from Kaizen bonsai, including pine bark. No cat litter but still inorganic, I'll be staying with inorganic.

And I having trouble believing frost damage, unless it manifests itself a lot different than I thought it did. This damage has only appeared on leaves after the shoot pruning, other leaves are fine + its been 1-2 months since that frost. These leaves were present at the time though. But I was VERY diligent with the maple, and still am. Strong winds, it is moved. Cold temps it is moved to a sheltered unheated protection.. Honestly, given the issues with this thing, I was on top of it.. Moving it in and out, if temps were anywhere around 2-3. I'd get out of bed at 10pm if I had a worry it would be too cold and move the thing inside.

Btw I see your name pop up on the Peter Warren streams , enjoying them?

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Since you pruned, I believe these leaves were not used to the sun and dried when the outer foliage was removed. It should be fine

 

[TomB]

is now in a mostly inorganic substrate of molar clay from Kaizen bonsai, including pine bark. No cat litter but still inorganic, I'll be staying with inorganic.

'kitty litter' (assuming you are talking about Sanicat pink or Tesco low dust) is molar clay.

 

[ConorDash]

'kitty litter' (assuming you are talking about Sanicat pink or Tesco low dust) is molar clay.

Yeah I know , yes the Tesco low Dust.
Only difference being the particles are different size from Kaizen, and difference in mix is now using some bark.
I am confidence in the molar clay mix. Have you used it with Maples Tom?

Since you pruned, I believe these leaves were not used to the sun and dried when the outer foliage was removed. It should be fine

Perhaps. I am not sure ill find out why.. Acer Ps just seem to be sensitive to everything, including mysterious forces of evil..

 

[TomB]

Yeah I know , yes the Tesco low Dust.
Only difference being the particles are different size from Kaizen, and difference in mix is now using some bark.
I am confidence in the molar clay mix. Have you used it with Maples Tom?

Only as a component. I'm currently using one part each of Akadama, Moler, Pumice and Lava for most deciduous trees, with a little more Akadama thrown in for the maples. Medium particle size. Shohin get a different mix, but that's what I'd be using for a tree like yours.

 

[ConorDash]

Only as a component. I'm currently using one part each of Akadama, Moler, Pumice and Lava for most deciduous trees, with a little more Akadama thrown in for the maples. Medium particle size. Shohin get a different mix, but that's what I'd be using for a tree like yours.

Good to know. I have used 80-90% molar clay for most of my trees, for the most part, of 4 years. My choice is developing and changing. I am looking to try akadama more. Different particle size for different sized trees. I've never considered it a problem before to be honest, always got along well with it.
Next is using a bit of soil to turn it more in to a Kaizen mix, more water retention. A few of my trees from Bobby are in the like.
Good to develop and see how they do.

What are your thoughts on the condition of those maple leaves? Only apparent on those that have been shoot pruned.

 

[TomB]

using a bit of soil

Would strongly recommend against that. We spend years trying to transition trees OUT of field soil; there are reasons for that.

What are your thoughts on the condition of those maple leaves? Only apparent on those that have been shoot pruned.

If you mean your most recent pictures? Looks like you've got some chlorosis going on, which could be caused by a number of things. Funnily enough, I've seen this happen, particularly on shaded leaves, when using inorganic substrates (like molar clay) in combination with lots of water... you could try seaweed (I presume you mean Maxicrop), or epsom salts, or ferrous sulphate - all of which might help.

One thing to bear in mind is that when a tree seems to be having problems, it is often because the tree is generally weak due to what has happened to it over the previous few years. By this I mean a failure to build good reserves in the roots and trunk, for whatever reason. Having a weak root system compromises everything (though at first glance yours doesn't look too bad - not perfect but moving towards a 'bonsai' root system). These factors can interact - a strong tree might react perfectly well to your current regime, but in a weak one then problems (e.g. mineral deficiency) can become aggravated (because the root system can't take up the nutrients it needs, even if they are available). It can take time to build up strength in a tree again.

 

[ConorDash]

Would strongly recommend against that. We spend years trying to transition trees OUT of field soil; there are reasons for that.



If you mean your most recent pictures? Looks like you've got some chlorosis going on, which could be caused by a number of things. Funnily enough, I've seen this happen, particularly on shaded leaves, when using inorganic substrates (like molar clay) in combination with lots of water... you could try seaweed (I presume you mean Maxicrop), or epsom salts, or ferrous sulphate - all of which might help.

One thing to bear in mind is that when a tree seems to be having problems, it is often because the tree is generally weak due to what has happened to it over the previous few years. By this I mean a failure to build good reserves in the roots and trunk, for whatever reason. Having a weak root system compromises everything (though at first glance yours doesn't look too bad - not perfect but moving towards a 'bonsai' root system). These factors can interact - a strong tree might react perfectly well to your current regime, but in a weak one then problems (e.g. mineral deficiency) can become aggravated (because the root system can't take up the nutrients it needs, even if they are available). It can take time to build up strength in a tree again.

Alright good to know on the soil front. Bear in mind we are talking about 5-10% normal soil, mixed in with substrate. Seen it used in in a few good peoples mix, plus as I say, used with Kaizen but I understand your concerns.

Ok good point. I had thought my maple was strong and recovered from previous years. Those big sacrifice branches had built up a good amount of vigour and grew really strongly. Ill be cutting off the other sacrifice shortly, after that its main big growth period is rewarded with rest. Maxicrop yeh.
The tree has keep kept in full sun but of course some leaves may be shaded naturally. It has been watered more than usual, I do not think I was watering enough previously. Its been fed very well and watered plenty. Due to the substrate, it cant be over watered so I have used that to my advantage.

Oh wells, will have to let time do its thing. I am happy with how I am caring for it currently, so if I am doing something wrong again, ill adapt as soon as I can figure out what .

Will be interesting to see how the leaves react on the large primary that I have cut, its been a week or 2. Then on the other which is yet to be cut.

 

[TomB]

Due to the substrate, it cant be over watered so I have used that to my advantage.

This is 100% wrong. Moler clay retains a huge amount of water, both internally and between the particles. I have seen trees planted in mixes like yours absolutely waterlogged (especially using the smaller particle size you had last year). The bark makes things even worse. This is why it should be mixed with particles that give greater air filled porosity (pumice, lava). Using a high% moler, you can find the top of the pot is dry while the bottom is still wet. Especially if the root system hasn't colonised the entire pot. So you end up with a waterlogged root system, unable to take up nutrients... "Free draining" does not mean the same as "can't stay too wet". Even with better soil mixes, this can be a problem, especially in over-sized pots.

It's a minefield isn't it