Acer palmatum

[Shay]

Hello everyone,
I found this tree in a nurcery. There is only one in Israel that grow them being located 700m above sea level and in zone 9.
I live closer to the cost line and in zone 10.
My appartement is facing north and relatively cool. Shade all winter and part sunny the rest of the year.
I have several questions:
I know its too high (the tree) and thought of cutting it where the yellow line is.
But before that I thought of air layering where the blue lines are. Any thoughts or other suggestions?
Is it possible to air layer both at the same time?
When to start in Acer palmatum?
I don't think I should repot if I want to airlayer right?
If anyone here grow mapels in zone 10 and have suggestions plaese share.
Thank you!
Shay

 

[klosi]

I'm not an expert on any of these things, so all I can give you is my personal (and maybe not accurate) insight.
You should airlay it during the growing season, soecifically in the summer. I think you should do it seperatly, first the upper part.
Read spieces guide on some bonsai site or general horticultural site with acer p. described.
Good luck!

 

[erb.75]

Shay,
You will not be able to air layer where both blue lines are located. As a rule of thumb, you can air layer any part of the tree but one side of the layer has to reach the roots. That means if you have a really long branch, you can't do 3 air layers all in a line.Both of your yellow lines would be places you COULD air layer at the same time.

I think my advice would be to shorten the tree somehow in order to get taper.

One thing you'll have to keep in mind living in zone 10: maples need to rest in the winter, which means the temperature has to get low enough to make them go dormant for a while. If you're tree doesn't go to sleep, it'll eventually get too tired and die. Some people in warm climates (or cold climates) have been known to stick their bonsai in the fridge for several months to force it into dormancy. This is the reason that there are so few maples in your area, and people who sell maples in your area. They probably won't survive without a winter nap.

If it were my tree and i was in it for the long haul, I'd air layer at the blue lines at the bottom of the tree, and get 2 good shohin maples out of it.

Best of luck!

 

[Shay]

Shay,
You will not be able to air layer where both blue lines are located. As a rule of thumb, you can air layer any part of the tree but one side of the layer has to reach the roots. That means if you have a really long branch, you can't do 3 air layers all in a line.Both of your yellow lines would be places you COULD air layer at the same time.

I think my advice would be to shorten the tree somehow in order to get taper.

One thing you'll have to keep in mind living in zone 10: maples need to rest in the winter, which means the temperature has to get low enough to make them go dormant for a while. If you're tree doesn't go to sleep, it'll eventually get too tired and die. Some people in warm climates (or cold climates) have been known to stick their bonsai in the fridge for several months to force it into dormancy. This is the reason that there are so few maples in your area, and people who sell maples in your area. They probably won't survive without a winter nap.

If it were my tree and i was in it for the long haul, I'd air layer at the blue lines at the bottom of the tree, and get 2 good shohin maples out of it.

Best of luck!

Thank you for you help!
2 shohin will also fit in the fridgh without disturbing the Mrs....
Is 3-4 degrees Celsius enough for dormancy?
Thanks again.

 

[erb.75]

Yes. I don't know what most people keep the fridge at, but usually perfect winter storage is around 35 degrees F (1.6 deg. C). I would think if you're at 3-4 deg. C that is good.

 

[erb.75]

http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/refrigerated-shohin.14277/

talk to this guy. he puts maples in his fridge.

 

[JudyB]

I have put maples in my fridge for short periods of time, I think the only problem you can run into is that a fridge is a very dry environment, and the tree needs some humidity. Maybe taking it out and periodically misting it would help.

 

[Cypress187]

I like the movement/connection on the bottem branch. It doesn't look very strong (or maybe it only seems because no leaves) so maybe if you have the patience you could let it grow for a year (or airlayer the top this year). But i heared for airlayer the plant also needs to be strong.

 

[iant]

If there is an option I'd switch to an East facing apartment over a North facing one. If you live in an area with warm summers Acer p loves morning sun.

 

[leatherback]

I have done airlayers on maple as you suggest. This works well. Root formation takes place based on the foliage connected to the layer. Not the connection to the roots. As long as there are branches with load of foliage connected to the area to be layered, it should work.

This setup took 7 weeks to produce roots. Layer was placed after initial spring flush.

 

[erb.75]

ya, that makes more sense...the roots grow on the top so the leaves feed the root growth on the layer...that is more logical

 

[Shay]

Thank you all for your help!
Iant: I get morning and evening sun for a couple of hours spring to fall. I can't convince my wife to move because my trees need sun yet...
Erb: thank for the link. Its funny to me that some people need to put trees in the fridge because its too cold outside... I'll give it a try and see.
Cypress: the plant is strong. It was taller and the rootball looks good as far as I can tell.
Leatherback: thank you for the info. I think I'll go for one layer and 2 good beginnings. How can I know if there is enough foliage?
Thanks again!

 

[M. Frary]

A lot if trees and plants can't take super cold. My japanese maple I bought last year would never make it here without taking extra precautions. Putting one into a refrigerator would protect it from the cold.
Then some people's trees tend to want to come out of dormancy early and need to be put into a refrigerator in order to slow that down.

 

[Shay]

A lot if trees and plants can't take super cold. My japanese maple I bought last year would never make it here without taking extra precautions. Putting one into a refrigerator would protect it from the cold.
Then some people's trees tend to want to come out of dormancy early and need to be put into a refrigerator in order to slow that down.

Yes I realized that...
So it depends on light as well? Because if its colder outside then why are they waking up?

 

[M. Frary]

Yes I realized that...
So it depends on light as well? Because if its colder outside then why are they waking up?

Because in a container radiant heat from the sun warms up the roots faster than trees growing in the ground. So the tree believes it's time to grow.

 

[Shay]

Update...
The air layer was successful!
12 days after the cut, the colander is packed with roots that pop out all over
Thanks for watching.
Shay

 

[MACH5]

Shay congrats on your air layer. Glad it worked out. I would suggest for next time to wait until your layer has more developed roots before you separate it. It is a safer bet that way.

 

[Shay]

Mach5, thanks for the reply.
I have a question.. the reason I separated was because there was no growth at the top part and the bottom part started to develop quite vigorously.
I figured the tree stop developing the top and separation will help that. is this right? also I knew it will become very hot here soon and wanted to give the top part time to adjust before summer.
ill keep your advice in mind next time
regards,
Shay

 

[MACH5]

Mach5, thanks for the reply.
I have a question.. the reason I separated was because there was no growth at the top part and the bottom part started to develop quite vigorously.
I figured the tree stop developing the top and separation will help that. is this right? also I knew it will become very hot here soon and wanted to give the top part time to adjust before summer.
ill keep your advice in mind next time
regards,
Shay

Shay I would say that no matter what's happening up top, your focus should be on what the roots are doing on any air layer. So whether the plant is growing or not, just look at your root development. You should wait until at least the roots have lignified (turn brownish) and have a good system of fine roots in place before separating it from the parent tree. This way it will enable your new tree to better cope with things like excessive heat and definitely increase your chances for success. In any case it worked out for you this time!

 

[leatherback]

Ah.. Well..
In practice only the white tips of the roots do the plant any good when it comes to getting water and nutrition out of the soil. Once the root turns brown, the root has started to create bark, which is much less permeable then the whilte roots.

My main arghument for waiting is the reduced risk of breaking off the ew roots in wind or something like that.

I always separate early, as I want the roots to have space to grown, and rather put the plant in the shade for a week or two, fiving them some easy growing conditions.

Has anyone actually tested the difference in post-separation growth and establishment when separating at different times?