Acer palmatum beni tsukasa (from cutting)

[Woocash]

I love this thread. Every time I open it there is more noticeable development.

Just a thought as the over watering in a cooler climate kind of makes sense, but regardless, it’s in a greenhouse in France, in summertime, in loose substrate. How wet could the soil be?

I wonder whether such a heavy fertilisation regime could have a detrimental effect over a number of years. Would the tree not benefit from a rest every so often?

 

[clem]

Not sure. I have 3 deshojos, none in a greenhouse and I am thinking, my place is not warmer than yours. Putting on some good runners, maybe 50cm or so.

Do you have wind ? i live near to the beach, and i have very regular wind, and the acer palmatum doesn't like it.. I have also palmatum cultivars in the ground and they don't grow as much as the ones in the greenhouse.. so i think in my particular meteo conditions, the greenhouse is essential. I also grow a pseudocydonia chinensis in the greenhouse

 

[clem]

I love this thread. Every time I open it there is more noticeable development.

Just a thought as the over watering in a cooler climate kind of makes sense, but regardless, it’s in a greenhouse in France, in summertime, in loose substrate. How wet could the soil be?

I wonder whether such a heavy fertilisation regime could have a detrimental effect over a number of years. Would the tree not benefit from a rest every so often?

This summer is very fresh (20°C - 25 °C inside the greenhouse) and very rainy/humid... the substrate stays wet a very long time.. i try now to let the soil particles dry out on the surface before watering again. Which means that i don't water for 2 or 3 days.. in summer. I didn't change at all my fertilisation, it is the first time i have brown tips on the leaves. I still dunno why and i would prefer by far to know so that i can prevent it for the next year. I have also this year more green caterpillars eating the leaves. Maybe what you say about heavy fertilisation is right... maybe my trees will become weaker ? i dunno although i guess (logicaly) that the more growth you get, the more sugars circulation, the more strength of the trees.. For example, in the ground when young trees grow very much, the are very strong. Another aspect is the fact that i have only cultivar from cuttings (with their own cultivar roots), so maybe it is different/weaker than yamamoiji (acer palmatum from the wild) or graft cultivars... A lot of questions.. maybe i'll have answer later seeing the ealth evolution (good or bad) of those cultivars.

 

[Woocash]

This summer is very fresh (20°C - 25 °C inside the greenhouse) and very rainy/humid... the substrate stays wet a very long time.. i try now to let the soil particles dry out on the surface before watering again. Which means that i don't water for 2 or 3 days.. in summer. I didn't change at all my fertilisation, it is the first time i have brown tips on the leaves. I still dunno why and i would prefer by far to know so that i can prevent it for the next year. I have also this year more green caterpillars eating the leaves. Maybe what you say about heavy fertilisation is right... maybe my trees will become weaker ? i dunno although i guess (logicaly) that the more growth you get, the more sugars circulation, the more strength of the trees.. For example, in the ground when young trees grow very much, the are very strong. Another aspect is the fact that i have only cultivar from cuttings (with their own cultivar roots), so maybe it is different/weaker than yamamoiji (acer palmatum from the wild) or graft cultivars... A lot of questions.. maybe i'll have answer later seeing the ealth evolution (good or bad) of those cultivars.

Well I’m far from being an expert, but as far as I’m aware, if you use chemical fertilisers too heavily for too long then the soil can effectively die and the tree would lose it‘s immune system. It’s why in farming fields are left to go fallow for a year every so often so the soil can recover from a heavy saturation of ferts and pesticides.

Maybe try a year of organic fertilisers instead? I’m sure someone more in the know can chime in to offer some good advice.

 

[Davidlpf]

Well I’m far from being an expert, but as far as I’m aware, if you use chemical fertilisers too heavily for too long then the soil can effectively die and the tree would lose it‘s immune system. It’s why in farming fields are left to go fallow for a year every so often so the soil can recover from a heavy saturation of ferts and pesticides.

Maybe try a year of organic fertilisers instead? I’m sure someone more in the know can chime in to offer some good advice.

I think that the inorganic mix used as substrate is already dead by definition...

a modern substrate has nothing to do with the soil used in traditional cultivation, as Mr @Walter Pall say

 

[Woocash]

I think that the inorganic mix used as substrate is already dead by definition...

a modern substrate has nothing to do with the soil used in traditional cultivation, as Mr @Walter Pall say

Well, isn’t all soil dead by definition? It’s the microbes, bacteria, fungi and mini beasts which give it life. Even inorganics contain the capabilities to house all these organisms. I think my point stands.

 

[Davidlpf]

Well, isn’t all soil dead by definition?

What Is Dead May Never Die

It’s the microbes, bacteria, fungi and mini beasts which give it life. Even inorganics contain the capabilities to house all these organisms. I think my point stands.

May they be in, but necessary they aren't...if you use a modern substrate and right fertilization routine.

Personally, I don't care if someone uses an organic or inorganic (chemical) based fertilizer. I maintain that they ultimately do the same thing, provide the plant with the essential elements. I am not trying to get anyone to give up using organic fertilizers. I do try to dispel the belief that organic fertilizers are far superior in the totally artificial system of bonsai. If we were talking about organic gardening, I would have to agree with the organic school of thought, since organic fertilizers in that system also do wonders for the structure of the soil and the ecology of the microorganisms. In bonsai, this is artificially manipulated, and in fact we try hard not to have the organic portions of the soil degrade (compost) , which causes soil collapse and poor drainage. Additionally, we often drench the soil with fungicides which will kill many of the beneficial microorganisms as well as the pathogens.

Source click,click

Cheers.

 

[clem]

Well I’m far from being an expert, but as far as I’m aware, if you use chemical fertilisers too heavily for too long then the soil can effectively die and the tree would lose it‘s immune system. It’s why in farming fields are left to go fallow for a year every so often so the soil can recover from a heavy saturation of ferts and pesticides.

Maybe try a year of organic fertilisers instead? I’m sure someone more in the know can chime in to offer some good advice.

I guess the moss developpement on the soil is a good sign of good "life" in it ? ( = micro-organisms, mycorhizes etc) .. it is what Ryan Neil says : when moss developp, it means that micro-organisms and life developp correctly inside the soil.
Anyway, i'll see in september if the new leaves have the same brown tips appearing. If it is the case, i'll consider that the over-fertilisation can be the problem and give less fertiliser next year. Thanks for your idea

 

[TheBlackBonsai]

Beautifully Done!

 

[clem]

In August, i cut a branch in order to avoid a reverse tapper appearing (inside the red circle) ->


After the cut ->


Here is a selection of damaged/diseased leaves i had in August (on various cultivars : Beni Chidori, Deshojo, Katsura & Beni Tsukasa) ->




I guess it is fungal attack (?), because when i cut the damaged leaves, the new leaves appearing on the same branch have the same symptoms too.. and there are branches with intact leaves, with no problems. I still have now (in the middle of September) a few damaged leaves now on the Beni chidori & Deshojo maple, but no problem on the Koto no ito, Katsura & this Beni Tsukasa anymore.

 

[ConorDash]

In August, i cut a branch in order to avoid a reverse tapper appearing (inside the red circle) ->
View attachment 398647

After the cut ->
View attachment 398648

Here is a selection of damaged/diseased leaves i had in August (on various cultivars : Beni Chidori, Deshojo, Katsura & Beni Tsukasa) ->
View attachment 398649



I guess it is fungal attack (?), because when i cut the damaged leaves, the new leaves appearing on the same branch have the same symptoms too.. and there are branches with intact leaves, with no problems. I still have now (in the middle of September) a few damaged leaves now on the Beni chidori & Deshojo maple, but no problem on the Koto no ito, Katsura & this Beni Tsukasa anymore.

Same sort of thing thats plagued my maples for a number of years. This year has been the healthier and best growth I've ever seen. Perhaps mine have a little more "black tip" than anything else. I attribute it more now to wind, lack of moisture, the normal types of problems and nothing major. The leaves of Acer P are so delicate, one bad morning of wind can ruin them. I know yours live in a poly tunnel though, which helps avoid most of these issues.
I wouldn't be worried about it, certainly now we are coming to the end of the season.

 

[badatusernames]

looks great!

 

[clem]

Same sort of thing thats plagued my maples for a number of years. This year has been the healthier and best growth I've ever seen. Perhaps mine have a little more "black tip" than anything else. I attribute it more now to wind, lack of moisture, the normal types of problems and nothing major. The leaves of Acer P are so delicate, one bad morning of wind can ruin them. I know yours live in a poly tunnel though, which helps avoid most of these issues.
I wouldn't be worried about it, certainly now we are coming to the end of the season.

funny, it is the exact opposite for me.. perhaps because of the very rainy/humid summer. As you can see on the tips, they are black (necrosis) so i don't think the wind only can do that ? i think it is a fungus attack but i'm still not 100% sure of that.
I hope next year, JM will be more healthy

 

[MACH5]

Superb progress of a tree with distinctive character! Well done Clem.

 

[clem]

Thank you for the encouragements Sergio !

 

[ConorDash]

funny, it is the exact opposite for me.. perhaps because of the very rainy/humid summer. As you can see on the tips, they are black (necrosis) so i don't think the wind only can do that ? i think it is a fungus attack but i'm still not 100% sure of that.
I hope next year, JM will be more healthy

That's fair, and maybe I assume too much but I think the lack of moisture caused by wind to the leaves, can then lead to any amount of problems or the way the leaves look.

I agree though, yours look different to the usual wind damage or wear and tear. I still wouldn't be too worried though. It looks like fairly normal damage that I have seen on mine. It was having seen this sort of thing for multiple years in a row that it started to get worrying for me.

 

[clem]

That's fair, and maybe I assume too much but I think the lack of moisture caused by wind to the leaves, can then lead to any amount of problems or the way the leaves look.

I agree though, yours look different to the usual wind damage or wear and tear. I still wouldn't be too worried though. It looks like fairly normal damage that I have seen on mine. It was having seen this sort of thing for multiple years in a row that it started to get worrying for me.

I would be happy to know exactly what it is.. at least to try to avoid it for next year.
For example now i can recognise a sun burn : after 2 days of heat wave, i can see the damages on the leaves, and also on the young shoots (black spot) ->



But this year it is different : there was no heat wave, no hot sun and the injuries have evolved slowly during all the summer and autumn. When i have a sun burn, i see the dammage 1 or 2 days after the heat wave, and i can see that there is no progression of the injuries. My trees are in a open greenhouse (no heavy wind inside) so i'm sure it isn't the wind neither.
The fact that all my JM have the same injuries this year, that evolves slowly, make me think that it is a fungus attack. Although i spray copper fungicide.
Next year i'll spray jin liquid (dilution 2%) in spring on the leaves to prevent it. Dunno if it will be more efficient (?)

 

[Jeisen32]

Gorgeous tree

 

[ConorDash]

I would be happy to know exactly what it is.. at least to try to avoid it for next year.
For example now i can recognise a sun burn : after 2 days of heat wave, i can see the damages on the leaves, and also on the young shoots (black spot) ->
View attachment 402332
View attachment 402333View attachment 402334

But this year it is different : there was no heat wave, no hot sun and the injuries have evolved slowly during all the summer and autumn. When i have a sun burn, i see the dammage 1 or 2 days after the heat wave, and i can see that there is no progression of the injuries. My trees are in a open greenhouse (no heavy wind inside) so i'm sure it isn't the wind neither.
The fact that all my JM have the same injuries this year, that evolves slowly, make me think that it is a fungus attack. Although i spray copper fungicide.
Next year i'll spray jin liquid (dilution 2%) in spring on the leaves to prevent it. Dunno if it will be more efficient (?)

Very good points, well made. I have to agree with you then.

I have converted to a winter wash LS spray, during dormancy and then once more when the buds are starting to swell but not opened yet.
I have read Marky's winter wash document on this forum, a few times. Highly recommend.

 

[Stella]

What an incredible progression. gives me so much hope with my bunch of "stick on pots"
thank you for sharing