A Modest Proposal

[Si Nguyen]

FYI because you deemed it necessary to call me out. I argue politics and the state of this country all the time and work and with my husband, who happens to land on the opposite side of the discussion from me. After over 20 years of being together, never going to bed angry at each other and still planning on being together for a very long time despite our differences of opinion on politics, l think I/we have a pretty open mind. I am not afraid of someone else's opinion, nor intelligent discussion. I engage in it every day. The latter of which has been lacking when it comes to political discussions here because some people cant be adults, put their emotions aside and think rationally about it for a minute.

Go ahead and let this whole site become a huge political debate and we can stop talking about bonsai and just spend all of our time talking about politics and calling each other names because we don't land on the same side of the argument. Its worked so well for this forum in the past.

If this forum ceases to provide a place where I can come and learn about and discuss bonsai and devolves into nothing but petty bickering about things we can do nothing about in this venue then please delete my account because there will no longer be a reason for me to come here anyway.

Lastly if you really aren't a moderator, you shouldn't have the title under your name. The very title of "moderator" denotes a certain responsibility to uphold the policies of the board. If there really is no one willing and/or able to do that then there shouldn't be a policy in the first place.

Hey Paradox, I am sorry. I should not have singled you out like that. I was outa bound there. I don't know you enough to pick on you like that. Other people are correct in calling me out too. I can respect that. My little diatribe was meant for somebody else. I was just too rushed this morning to pick out his post to reply to.

You are right. I really should remove that Moderator title. I am not good at policing people. I am sure there are other moderators here who could be the bad cop once in a while. I don't even remember how I even got to be the moderator in the first place. Do you want to be the moderator? I can nominate you!

But I am serious about this place being free from constant adult supervision. The best thing about this place is that people are not treated like children. They might act like children from time to time, but so what, life goes on. If a few old people like us who love such a peaceful hobby like bonsai can't tolerate one another no matter what then there's no hope for this country. But there is hope for this country, as long as we are still around and kicking. Don't worry, if any thread got really nasty, then yes, BNut will shut it down. So far so good though.
Peace!

 

[davetree]

Dave,

I agree completely.

Martin

Heh heh heh.

 

[macdad]

The way I see it, forums are somewhat about learning. They are mostly about socialization. If we just wanted to learn, we would simply get some books and read some blogs.

We post here because we want to show what we have accomplished, ask questions that have been asked a million times (guilty as charged), get attention from others, and maybe form some bonds. Humans are social beings, period.

It would be nice to keep the off topic stuff in the tea house. It would also be nice to stick to the subject of the thread. If we were more diligent with that, perhaps there wouldn't be so many duplicate threads.

Bottom line, if you don't want to socialize, become a hermit. If you do, participate in clubs, forums, etc.

 

[Vance Wood]

Bonsainut,

May I respectfully suggest that you visit the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum. They are a very active and informative forum with a zero tolerance no politics or religion policy. Violators get warned then banned if they persist. I think it would be nice if you would consider this policy.

I love bonsai, talking about bonsai, looking at bonsai. Being subjected to people who thinks we need to be aware of their political views often ruins the experience of this forum. There are plenty of other places for people so inclined to argue politics. ( I know about and use the "ignore" option, but he problem with that is sometimes the political evangelists have something worthwhile to contribute about bonsai that I'd like to see.)

Paul

You were not upset or impacted by the government taking the entire inventory of Ebony from Gibson Guitars, claiming some sort of import infraction (not donating to the Obama Campaign) but leaving Fender alone for the exact same infractions (donated to the Obama Campaign)? I would bet that if there is a Gibson forum that this issue was the topic of discussion. whether they allowed political discourse or not.

Sometimes politics impacts the things we care the most about. Does that mean we cannot comment about them? As to, and I am concluding you are refering to the Grand Canyon thread, politics was only a brief and veiled suggestion in the title. It was not my intent to go political. You may have noticed that it was not I that continued or fanned the flames.

However; if I have to go through the PC police to make a post on this forum I will be gone. Sometimes you cannot avoid saying something political if you are conscious. There is another quote, now that I have in some peoples minds already crossed the line; it is written that a government big enough to give you every thing you want is also big enough to take everything you have. That applies to this forum.

 

[davetree]

You were not upset or impacted by the government taking the entire inventory of Ebony from Gibson Guitars, claiming some sort of import infraction (not donating to the Obama Campaign) but leaving Fender alone for the exact same infractions (donated to the Obama Campaign)? I would bet that if there is a Gibson forum that this issue was the topic of discussion. whether they allowed political discourse or not.

Sometimes politics impacts the things we care the most about. Does that mean we cannot comment about them? As to, and I am concluding you are refering to the Grand Canyon thread, politics was only a brief and veiled suggestion in the title. It was not my intent to go political. You may have noticed that it was not I that continued or fanned the flames.

However; if I have to go through the PC police to make a post on this forum I will be gone. Sometimes you cannot avoid saying something political if you are conscious. There is another quote, now that I have in some peoples minds already crossed the line; it is written that a government big enough to give you every thing you want is also big enough to take everything you have. That applies to this forum.

Nice job keeping the politics out of the forum Vance.

 

[Vance Wood]

Nice job keeping the politics out of the forum Vance.

Nice job not wishing to understand what you just read.

 

[davetree]

Nice job not wishing to understand what you just read.

You mean not wishing to understand what you wrote ? No problem, wouldn't be the first time. You're not really the oracle on all things political.

 

[macdad]

One more observation... Those who complain the most about these things tend to be the one who argue the most and fan the flames. If there wasn't controversy, they wouldn't be happy. If there is controversy, they wouldn't be happy.

In the spirit of this post, perhaps they are unhappy, because they have an emptiness in their hearts. An emptiness that only Jesus can fill!

 

[coh]

You were not upset or impacted by the government taking the entire inventory of Ebony from Gibson Guitars, claiming some sort of import infraction (not donating to the Obama Campaign) but leaving Fender alone for the exact same infractions (donated to the Obama Campaign)? I would bet that if there is a Gibson forum that this issue was the topic of discussion. whether they allowed political discourse or not.

Sometimes politics impacts the things we care the most about. Does that mean we cannot comment about them? As to, and I am concluding you are refering to the Grand Canyon thread, politics was only a brief and veiled suggestion in the title. It was not my intent to go political. You may have noticed that it was not I that continued or fanned the flames.

However; if I have to go through the PC police to make a post on this forum I will be gone. Sometimes you cannot avoid saying something political if you are conscious. There is another quote, now that I have in some peoples minds already crossed the line; it is written that a government big enough to give you every thing you want is also big enough to take everything you have. That applies to this forum.

I call BS on the underlined statement in your response. It is a conscious choice we all can make. You can either (1) leave the politics out of it completely, (2) make it overtly political, or (3) choose the subtle approach, which some here are very good at. In fact, it sounds like you were quite aware what you might be starting ("politics was only a brief and veiled suggestion in the title").

Chris

 

[dick benbow]

I get "tickled" when i read how terrible it is that people discuss religion on a hobby chatline.
All the chatlines I'm on are those that share things about hobbies that came from japan. And strangely enough as you study those hobbies, you find out that they are intertwined by asian culture and religion. Well son of a gun
as to pilitics, since time immemorial, citizens have gathered in town squares to share their take on such. Our expression of being on your soapbox came from that practice. I don't see it ending anytime soon.
we're human, nothing perfect about being one. I think BN does a pretty decent job of keeping things within limits. Always happy to hear of a new chatline striving to keep things focused. But don't expect to be leaving BN any time soon.

 

[coh]

It (politics) has been pretty much gone from BN since the karaoke bar was eliminated, and the forum has been much improved (my opinion, of course, but I'm obviously not alone). I think people are objecting to the suggestion in the other thread that political discussion is acceptable. Why go back there? The country is so divided right now...bonsai provides an opportunity for me to get away from all that.

Chris

 

[Vance Wood]

It (politics) has been pretty much gone from BN since the karaoke bar was eliminated, and the forum has been much improved (my opinion, of course, but I'm obviously not alone). I think people are objecting to the suggestion in the other thread that political discussion is acceptable. Why go back there? The country is so divided right now...bonsai provides an opportunity for me to get away from all that.

Chris

It takes two people to start an argument and the first one who makes the statement that someone else's faux Paux is an excuse to run-a-muck has at least 50% of the blame.

If Swamp Gass had not jumped on my title line we would not be having this argument.

If Paul had not posted this thread we would not be having this discussion that is quickly becoming a community wide cluster f()@}.

If people were not willing to make these comments this thread would not have gone beyond two or three responses.

What this does show is that political discussion on this forum is is alive and well like pornography; everyone dislikes it, openly, but no one complains about it until they have looked at it in secret. It's so easy to claim the high ground when people comprehend that they have a moral obligation in thinking they are right and can make the claims they do with impunity, while destroying someone they may not like for one reason or another.

If you are serious about this you are as much to blame as the person or person's that started it. The only advantage you have is a perceived excuse, "well I didn't start this I'm just commenting on how bad it is". Just Remember excuses are like ass-holes; everybody has one but they all stink. If you commented here you are just as responsible as those who started it, so don't get on your great white horses and suggest how bad I am you band of hypocrites.

 

[coh]

No. You are wrong here.

The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes. You started it, and you knew what you were doing. The title of the thread says it all. Instead of titling it something innocuous ("A beautiful place", "The Grand Canyon", etc), you chose the provocative title "Shut this down?" It's just like that thread you started earlier in the year about the karaoke bar, asking where everyone who complained about it went. You then complained about the responses you got when they all showed up in response.

You opened the door...again.

Chris

 

[Vance Wood]

No. You are wrong here.

The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes. You started it, and you knew what you were doing. The title of the thread says it all. Instead of titling it something innocuous ("A beautiful place", "The Grand Canyon", etc), you chose the provocative title "Shut this down?" It's just like that thread you started earlier in the year about the karaoke bar, asking where everyone who complained about it went. You then complained about the responses you got when they all showed up in response.

You opened the door...again.

Chris

I didn't say I did not. Though it was not on purpose. However; can you honestly say that my comment was worthy of the extreme reaction I got from Swamp Gass? As long as I have probably incurred the wrath of the powers that be I will continue to make comments like the one that started this tempest in a Tea Pot if it gets a laugh or an heart attack. Get over it. I made a statement in an earlier post that I will not continue to participate in a forum of any kind that is run by the PC Gestapo. If you don't like what I have to say and it is of no value to you then put me on your ignore feature.


And Chris; My selection of title was meant to be controversial in asking how do you shut down this place? We don't have enough shovels. However and still this does not warrant the reaction it got except from someone looking for an excuse to do so.

 

[coh]

Vance,

Ignoring you or anyone else would only be a temporary fix. What I'm speaking out against is the issue of allowing political discussion and commentary on this forum. Your original post may seem pretty innocent, but if it goes unchallenged, then others will start doing it (especially when a site moderator comes along and says political discussion is OK, that's what really got this thread going). And before long it will be everywhere. That's something I have no interest in and no tolerance for. It's not a matter of not tolerating the opinions of others, as I'm happy to discuss politics when appropriate. I just strongly believe this is not the place for it.

As for sawgrass...if you go back through that thread you'll see that I never responded to his comments, even though he poked at me at least twice. I think that should tell you everything you need to know right there...

Have a good weekend...beautiful fall colors out there!

Chris

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance,

Ignoring you or anyone else would only be a temporary fix. What I'm speaking out against is the issue of allowing political discussion and commentary on this forum. Your original post may seem pretty innocent, but if it goes unchallenged, then others will start doing it (especially when a site moderator comes along and says political discussion is OK, that's what really got this thread going). And before long it will be everywhere. That's something I have no interest in and no tolerance for. It's not a matter of not tolerating the opinions of others, as I'm happy to discuss politics when appropriate. I just strongly believe this is not the place for it.

As for sawgrass...if you go back through that thread you'll see that I never responded to his comments, even though he poked at me at least twice. I think that should tell you everything you need to know right there...

Have a good weekend...beautiful fall colors out there!

Chris

What you ask is impossible to implement unless everything is run through a monitor to check for content. I have no real issues with you and only small ones with Swamp Gas.

 

[PaulH]

Moderators, please close this.

As the Originator of this mess I regret that it has turned into pretty much the kind of crap I was commenting on.
Why don't we consign this thread to the can and get back to bonsai.

Paul

 

[Vance Wood]

As the Originator of this mess I regret that it has turned into pretty much the kind of crap I was commenting on.
Why don't we consign this thread to the can and get back to bonsai.

Paul

And it was not even about politics. The problem is not politics it's people and their mean spirited vengeful souls wishing to do other people harm.

 

[A Random User]

. There is another quote, now that I have in some peoples minds already crossed the line; it is written that a government big enough to give you every thing you want is also big enough to take everything you have. That applies to this forum.

Man... my grandfather used to go around saying ridiculous
Qoutes that didn't apply to what he was taking about as well...
We use to think he was senile...

Are we to assume by this that the B-Nut forum is going to
Come take everything we have ???
If so... I hope they start with my Bills...
Then move on to my truck that has a blown head gasket...

 

[A Random User]

As for sawgrass...if you go back through that thread you'll see that I never responded to his comments, even though he poked at me at least twice. I think that should tell you everything you need to know right there...

Have a good weekend...beautiful fall colors out there!

Chris

Chris...
You give me to much credit...
I only "poked" at you once.

Although... if you consider this post
To be taking a "poke" at you...
Then I guess I am guilty as charged !!!