8-9 feet live oak yamadori, need styling thoughts and inputs.

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Outstanding, you did it! And we won't have to listen to the whine, "I wish I had cut lower". You did it "just fine".

Water the mix when you stick your finger into the mix to the first knuckle, and then feel if it is still moist. If it feels bone dry, you should have watered yesterday. If it is lightly, or just barely is damp, perfect time to water. If it feels damp to wet, don't water, check again tomorrow. Chances are high that initially this tree will not need water every single day. Then as new roots develop, and new growth starts to grow, the demand for water will increase. So check to see if it needs water daily. Water when it actually needs it. Watering frequency will change with changes in the weather too.

So it may be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months before new growth will start. Don't give up until "next year". It may take a while to respond. There is also an outside chance it won't respond. But my bet is better than 75% chance it will indeed back bud and start growing. So cross your fingers.

About moving the tread, it doesn't matter. If you want tag the people you want to see your latest update. The way you do that is the "@" sign and then start spelling out their user name. The system will propose users, click on the correct name. For example @Leo in N E Illinois or @Johnathan we will both get a notice that we were tagged in a thread, with a link to the thread. LIke this @dresdraconius

 

[AaronThomas]

Wow... nice job. You'll know soon enough if it survived.

 

[dresdraconius]

I'm curious if it will survive. In my experience, live oaks don't like to be moved. I have transplanted smaller ones, about 2 inch trunks, from ground to grow bed, and not had success.

I'll update this thread in a few months. I'm curious myself. Not really sure.

 

[dresdraconius]

Outstanding, you did it! And we won't have to listen to the whine, "I wish I had cut lower". You did it "just fine".

Water the mix when you stick your finger into the mix to the first knuckle, and then feel if it is still moist. If it feels bone dry, you should have watered yesterday. If it is lightly, or just barely is damp, perfect time to water. If it feels damp to wet, don't water, check again tomorrow. Chances are high that initially this tree will not need water every single day. Then as new roots develop, and new growth starts to grow, the demand for water will increase. So check to see if it needs water daily. Water when it actually needs it. Watering frequency will change with changes in the weather too.

So it may be anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months before new growth will start. Don't give up until "next year". It may take a while to respond. There is also an outside chance it won't respond. But my bet is better than 75% chance it will indeed back bud and start growing. So cross your fingers.

About moving the tread, it doesn't matter. If you want tag the people you want to see your latest update. The way you do that is the "@" sign and then start spelling out their user name. The system will propose users, click on the correct name. For example @Leo in N E Illinois or @Johnathan we will both get a notice that we were tagged in a thread, with a link to the thread. LIke this @dresdraconius

It was hard to take the chainsaw to it. Almost felt I was murdering it but it had to be done.

Thanks for spelling this out in detail @Leo in N E Illinois . Thank you for all the time you spent in educating me. And everyone else as well.

Watering- such a simple thing but so hard to perfect.

Most of bonsai seems like zen. The trees I work the most on die but the ones I neglect somehow start growing new leaves!

Since I'm not afraid to reveal my stupidity, here is a story from last year.

In Oct 2019, before discovering this forum or mirai, I foolishly dug out a 5-7 year old oxblood maple. It was truly a beautiful tree. Trunk about 5 inch thick and potted it.
Mistake 1-In a large ceramic pot.
Mistake 2-It had ONE drain hole.
Mistake 3-I dug up soil from the yard (mostly black texas clay) and used 100% clay

Winter passes. Spring arrives. Feb 2020, I hope to see buds but there were none. No cambium. Dry dead wood.

If anyone wants proof , I have pictures but I want to bury this memory deep down. Oh well!


I watered it daily for

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

It was hard to take the chainsaw to it. Almost felt I was murdering it but it had to be done.

Thanks for spelling this out in detail @Leo in N E Illinois . Thank you for all the time you spent in educating me. And everyone else as well.

Watering- such a simple thing but so hard to perfect.

Most of bonsai seems like zen. The trees I work the most on die but the ones I neglect somehow start growing new leaves!

Since I'm not afraid to reveal my stupidity, here is a story from last year.

In Oct 2019, before discovering this forum or mirai, I foolishly dug out a 5-7 year old oxblood maple. It was truly a beautiful tree. Trunk about 5 inch thick and potted it.
Mistake 1-In a large ceramic pot.
Mistake 2-It had ONE drain hole.
Mistake 3-I dug up soil from the yard (mostly black texas clay) and used 100% clay

Winter passes. Spring arrives. Feb 2020, I hope to see buds but there were none. No cambium. Dry dead wood.

If anyone wants proof , I have pictures but I want to bury this memory deep down. Oh well!


I watered it daily for

We don't need to see pictures, we all have similar tales in our pasts. For some of us, who "seem" more experienced, like we know what we are doing, some of our mistakes are way too recent. LOL, Keep those photos buried. Delete them and it never happened.

 

[dresdraconius]

@Leo in N E Illinois

Perhaps im too eager. But I see no buds or signs of life. Should I nick the trunk in a few spots to stimulate growth. Is that even a thing?

 

[Shibui]

Leave it alone!
You have already done everything you could do. There's nothing more that will make any difference now.
Transplanted and chopped trees are sometimes much later to leaf out so you just have to be patient.
If it is going to grow it will.
If it is already dead it will not shoot but nothing you can do about that.

Just need to accept that some species are much more difficult to transplant than others. I suspect a great many trees have died in attempts to move them to pots but few are willing to admit such failures.

 

[dresdraconius]

Thank you Shibui.

Being new to this game, I'm learning,
Patience is very important.
Perhaps this is the right hobby for me.

I wont touch it. If it sprouts, I'll post pictures here on that day.

 

[dresdraconius]

Small update. There is a small branch that is developing from the root. Not from the trunk as I hoped it would. Will wait for something to pop from the trunk.

 

[rockm]

Small update. There is a small branch that is developing from the root. Not from the trunk as I hoped it would. Will wait for something to pop from the trunk.

.
FWIW, This isn't a great sign, in my opinion. It indicates the tree could be abandoning the main trunk in favor of starting over from a strong root. Not unusual for this species (Quercus Fusiformis) . It throws root suckers a lot. Nothing to do at this point, but let things grow and see what happens. I have had a Texas collected live oak for years. It was originally dug up in the Austin area by a long time collector. He dug many live oaks and learned that (when collected at the right time early in spring--Feb. or so) the trees that had the most success surviving the process dropped all their leaves immediately. Those trees that held on to their leaves usually died.

Don't know if the chop here saved the tree and forced it to push new growth, but I would not get too attached to it at this point, or next year, for that matter. After three years of unhindered, strong growth in a container, maybe...

Sorry to be a bummer, but this species is not easy to collect in season, my friend had a 60 percent survival rate with them back in the day. Others may have added onto that experience since though. Texas escarpment live oaks (Quercus fusiformis--which is what you have if you're in Dallas--southern live oak -Quercus virginiana--doesn't live that far north) are not all that common in bonsai. More are needed, since when they have adapted to containers, they are extremely tough and hardy.

 

[dresdraconius]

@rockm
thank you for the input and perspective.

It helps to have a bit of detachment towards the trees.

I'll continue to water it and see how it responds. if the main trunk doesnt bud after about a year, then I'll abandon the efforts.

 

[rockm]

@rockm
thank you for the input and perspective.

It helps to have a bit of detachment towards the trees.

I'll continue to water it and see how it responds. if the main trunk doesnt bud after about a year, then I'll abandon the efforts.

FWIW, you're on the right track with the size and kinds of trees to use for bonsai material. This is a great size to start a live oak bonsai from. It's actually on the medium sized side, not large at all. Many folks who want to use oak for a bonsai start with seedlings or saplings-which take decades to grow out to become even minimally worth working with. Oak bonsai should be heavy, and imposing just like a "real" oak.

Also, if you don't have success with this one, you are in Cedar Elm and hackberry heaven. Both of those species are extremely easy to find and easier to collect. Cedar elm makes exceptional bonsai and even large trees, like nine inch diameter trunks--can be sawed and dug up and trunk chopped all at the same time. I have several --they are very satisfying as they grow quickly and are very forgiving of mistakes. Same for hackberry (or in that area, sugarberry [celtis laevigata[ which even better than the main species for bonsai.

 

[dresdraconius]

Thank you so much for your wisdom rockm.

Cedar elm, sugatberry and hackberry are new to me so I'll familiarize myself and then go hunting.

I agree with you- oaks should be tall, imposing and majestic. I feel part of the reason why folks start with saplings are because the acorns sprout so easily in spring.

Thank you for your response again.

 

[SU2]

How's it doing now? @dresdraconius I believe seedlings are because collecting yamadori oak is so difficult, live oak and loropetalum are the hardest collections I've ever tried (am actively growing tons of oak seedlings & starters because of this)

Have had specimen like yours, when it shoots from the base like that I fear the top (ie that whole trunk) gets lost, would be real curious if this guy survived (pics if so plz!!! )

I was able to get a potted one a month ago, had to trunk-chop it to get it home (meaning it'd be re-budding now), thing is just barely surviving the trunk chop but finally has a ~dozen lil few-mm-long buds

 

[dresdraconius]

Can't believe someone remembered this thread.

Its not that great. A solitary bud (thats right just one) started off from near the top. I'll post pictures this evening.

Kinda ugly and not looking like a bonsai at all.

 

[dresdraconius]

Here.
Any inputs welcome.

 

[dresdraconius]

How's it doing now? @dresdraconius I believe seedlings are because collecting yamadori oak is so difficult, live oak and loropetalum are the hardest collections I've ever tried (am actively growing tons of oak seedlings & starters because of this)

Have had specimen like yours, when it shoots from the base like that I fear the top (ie that whole trunk) gets lost, would be real curious if this guy survived (pics if so plz!!! )

I was able to get a potted one a month ago, had to trunk-chop it to get it home (meaning it'd be re-budding now), thing is just barely surviving the trunk chop but finally has a ~dozen lil few-mm-long buds

Congratulations on getting it to bud again !!

 

[dresdraconius]

I don't want to throw it away so here I was I have in mind for future.

 

[Michael P]

With the root sprout, you also have the options of two trunk or clump style. These are appropriate for live oaks. BTW, this tree is almost certainly Q. virginiana, not Q. fusiformis. It was a builder-installed tree in new residential construction, which means cheapest nursery stock available. Such trees are almost always Q. virginiana. Q. fusiformis is very rare in the commercial nursery trade.

 

[parhamr]

Here.
Any inputs welcome.

Congrats! That’s pretty ideal. I’d let that branch regrow uninterrupted for two years to make for a nice transition. The angle of that new branch looks great, but you might introduce some moderate movement through wiring. You’ll want the movement at this stage to be exaggerated as it’ll look more normal in the future as the trunk thickens.

Regarding the rest of the trunk: I think you’ll see lots of die back if you try to go all the way down to the minimum tissue and make that diagonal cut. You’ll want to let the tree naturally compartmentalize tissue. You’ll be able to find where it makes the division by changes in appearance of the trunk (and also by gently performing small investigative cuts into the bark).