2016 US National Bonsai Exhibition

[A Random User]

If Bill is still around...

I have heard recently that Florida... had a big turn out once again, of trees in the Exhibition.

Not exactly sure how many? Would be interested in the count... but for the second time in a row, I heard we led with the most trees of any other state!

So, pretty awesome news!

 

[mattspinniken]

an older picture of the overall show winner that I recently came across

 

[MACH5]

an older picture of the overall show winner that I recently came across

Thanks for sharing Matt. A great job was done in compacting the design. My understanding is that it was all mainly styled by Ryan as were several other trees at the exhibit. Ryan himself had a huge informal upright ponderosa at the show.

 

[Eric Group]

Scott,
That I can understand but owning a tree that is award winning and having someone else taking care of it to me is... wrong. Are these people so afraid of killing their award winning trees that they have to hire a pro to take care of it.

Saying something is "wrong" just because it is different from how you may want to do it, to me is... "Wrong".

I prefer to keep trees at my house and work on them myself but I won't say others are wrong or not doing bonsai correctly because they want to do things differently!

 

[coh]

Thanks for sharing Matt. A great job was done in compacting the design. My understanding is that it was all mainly styled by Ryan as were several other trees at the exhibit. Ryan himself had a huge informal upright ponderosa at the show.

That was a shore pine, at least according to the label. It was huge, that's for "shore"!

Sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[namnhi]

Saying something is "wrong" just because it is different from how you may want to do it, to me is... "Wrong".

I prefer to keep trees at my house and work on them myself but I won't say others are wrong or not doing bonsai correctly because they want to do things differently!

Everyone entitled to their opinion. I don't know if the owner in the tree that winning did any work on their tree or not but if all you do is cough up some cash and have someone else did the styling and take care of the tree is definitely need to have their pride re-examined. Ask yourself what are you in this hobby for if you don't even see your tree 11 and a half months out of the year.

 

[JudyB]

Everyone entitled to their opinion.

Yes they are.

BUT...If not for the many different ways people enjoy doing and collecting bonsai, collectively we would not be experiencing a rise in popularity and quality in this country. So I say it's ALL good.

 

[Djtommy]

Everyone entitled to their opinion. I don't know if the owner in the tree that winning did any work on their tree or not but if all you do is cough up some cash and have someone else did the styling and take care of the tree is definitely need to have their pride re-examined. Ask yourself what are you in this hobby for if you don't even see your tree 11 and a half months out of the year.

But its thanks to those people that a bonsaimaster can make a living.
And in the end he still owns a very nice tree. Some people are artcollectors, its basically the same with bonsai collectors with the difference that a bonsai will just dye if there is no proper care. They probably get them at their home for special occasions to put on display. Me i like to do the styling myself but i would not feel bad at all to own a tree styled by suzuki san, kimura san etc..and i wouldnt mind putting it in a show either.

 

[petegreg]

I think they both, the owner and the artist that styled these trees can be proud and satisfied.

 

[rockm]

Everyone entitled to their opinion. I don't know if the owner in the tree that winning did any work on their tree or not but if all you do is cough up some cash and have someone else did the styling and take care of the tree is definitely need to have their pride re-examined. Ask yourself what are you in this hobby for if you don't even see your tree 11 and a half months out of the year.

This kind of "your tree isn't authentic because you didn't grow it from seed and style it all yourself" attitude held American bonsai firmly in bush league territory for years. Thank God things have changed.

Good trees are mostly NOT the product of a single owner/developer/artist/whatever. They generally are the product of MANY people who contribute to them over the years. The best trees have usually been around very experienced, professional bonsai "masters" who are paid for their advice and sometimes for their work. THERE IS NO SHAME IN THAT. The shame is in bitching someone should be ashamed of themselves for trying to move their tree beyond backyard status. Doing the same wrong crap in the same wrong way gets everyone stuck in their backyard with mediocre trees.

All this sounds snobbish if you haven't been in bonsai for long. It's not.

I can't afford professional instructors or to place my trees with a handler. That doesn't mean I begrudge that opportunity to others, consider them inferior human beings or question their motives for making silly little trees. Others who seek professional advice and help for their trees IS GOOD FOR LOWLY HOBBYISTS like me.

It drives experience deeper, supports better trees overall in the U.S., increases availability of superior stock, containers and equipment, promotes the art overall. Let's just say without professionals, shows like the National and the Artisans Cup would be less than they are. The fact that both drew big numbers of extremely fine trees this year, designed and cared for by professionals and private owners alike, makes them both better shows. You only have to look back 15 years to see that.

 

[Paradox]

This kind of "your tree isn't authentic because you didn't grow it from seed and style it all yourself" attitude held American bonsai firmly in bush league territory for years. Thank God things have changed.

Good trees are mostly NOT the product of a single owner/developer/artist/whatever. They generally are the product of MANY people who contribute to them over the years. The best trees have usually been around very experienced, professional bonsai "masters" who are paid for their advice and sometimes for their work. THERE IS NO SHAME IN THAT. The shame is in bitching someone should be ashamed of themselves for trying to move their tree beyond backyard status. Doing the same wrong crap in the same wrong way gets everyone stuck in their backyard with mediocre trees.

All this sounds snobbish if you haven't been in bonsai for long. It's not.

I can't afford professional instructors or to place my trees with a handler. That doesn't mean I begrudge that opportunity to others, consider them inferior human beings or question their motives for making silly little trees. Others who seek professional advice and help for their trees IS GOOD FOR LOWLY HOBBYISTS like me.

It drives experience deeper, supports better trees overall in the U.S., increases availability of superior stock, containers and equipment, promotes the art overall. Let's just say without professionals, shows like the National and the Artisans Cup would be less than they are. The fact that both drew big numbers of extremely fine trees this year, designed and cared for by professionals and private owners alike, makes them both better shows. You only have to look back 15 years to see that.

I agree.
I would also argue that the Artisans Cup and the National show are higher tier shows that are on a more professional level or at least very advanced amateur than a local club or society show. Neither was advertised as a strictly amateur or do it yourself show. If they were a local club or society show, I could understand If not for the quality of trees available and displayed, would those shows even exist?

As was stated previously, it is very common in Japan that top trees are owned by one person and styled and taken care of by others who are paid for that work. Credit is given to both if the tree wins.

I did notice that many of the trees displayed at the National Show had a card that indicated they were "exhibit only". I asked Coh what that meant and he said those trees were not part of the judging for awards because they were museum trees that are professionally maintained at a bonsai museum/collection.

Without these trees being displayed, what would we all aspire to? Would bonsai in America be reduced to "stick any old landscape shrub in a pot with little to no work beyond that and call it "bonsai""?
Probably wouldn't be that extreme but it certainly would be as good either.

 

[coh]

I did notice that many of the trees displayed at the National Show had a card that indicated they were "exhibit only". I asked Coh what that meant and he said those trees were not part of the judging for awards because they were museum trees that are professionally maintained at a bonsai museum/collection.

This includes trees from the National Arboretum, Montreal Botanical Garden, Kennett Collection, places like that. Bill's trees as well, I assume to avoid any potential conflict of interest issues regarding judging. I'm not sure how it is decided which trees go into this category, maybe Bill can shed some light if he wants. Do the owners request it? It obviously isn't just the professional maintenance aspect, as Ryan Neil had his own tree in the show and of course there were others that were styled/maintained by him (and other professionals...Boon, Suthin, etc).

 

[namnhi]

Good read. I think you all misunderstood what I really meant. I might not have used the 'right' words to describe what I wanted to say. I think it is great to have all the beautiful trees on display especially at these big show events. I don't care who own it or/and who style it. A beautiful tree is a beautiful tree that all of us can excite about. These trees should not be enter to be judged. I think that is what we all agreed on. Looks like there is a category for this type of trees. My problem is for someone to have extra cash and just bought beautiful tree and have someone else style then enter into a show like this to be judged and won the award as stated by one of the poster above. That is more inline with bonsai as a business then a hobby. Do any of you think that you have a tree that can compete with that? Again, I didn't know if the owner of that tree did any work on it so I can't say he did anything that I consider is 'wrong'.
I have been around BNut for quite a few years and started to noticed that in the last few years that Bonsai has started to be more of a business than a hobby. It is what it is. I don't come here to try to get vote or anything and as I said.. everyone entitled to his/her opinion.

 

[coh]

I have mixed feelings on this issue. Personally, I don't see the point in owning a tree that is kept somewhere else and maintained by someone else (but I do understand when the Boon students buy trees and leave them there to work on at the intensives, that makes sense). I wouldn't purchase an expensive painting and leave it at someone else's house. But, it doesn't bother me that some do this. Same for the ones who purchase completely styled trees and then enter them into shows. The benefit is that everyone gets to see more beautiful trees.

We all know the rules for the shows in advance. If you want to compete for awards, you either have to be able to create your own masterpiece bonsai, or you pay for someone else to do that for you. If it becomes important enough to enough people that only "own work" trees are shown/awarded, someone will put on such a show.

 

[JudyB]

My problem is for someone to have extra cash and just bought beautiful tree and have someone else style then enter into a show like this to be judged and won the award as stated by one of the poster above.

What exactly is "wrong" with this? It is the tree that wins the award.

Do any of you think that you have a tree that can compete with that?

Maybe not, but it makes me try harder... and I still get to appreciate the tree, no matter how it came to be, or who made it or who owns it.

 

[Adair M]

Good read. I think you all misunderstood what I really meant. I might not have used the 'right' words to describe what I wanted to say. I think it is great to have all the beautiful trees on display especially at these big show events. I don't care who own it or/and who style it. A beautiful tree is a beautiful tree that all of us can excite about. These trees should not be enter to be judged. I think that is what we all agreed on. Looks like there is a category for this type of trees. My problem is for someone to have extra cash and just bought beautiful tree and have someone else style then enter into a show like this to be judged and won the award as stated by one of the poster above. That is more inline with bonsai as a business then a hobby. Do any of you think that you have a tree that can compete with that? Again, I didn't know if the owner of that tree did any work on it so I can't say he did anything that I consider is 'wrong'.
I have been around BNut for quite a few years and started to noticed that in the last few years that Bonsai has started to be more of a business than a hobby. It is what it is. I don't come here to try to get vote or anything and as I said.. everyone entitled to his/her opinion.

Well, in my case, I'm somewhat in the middle. I live in Georgia, I travel to California to study with a master. I have a few trees in his garden, and I work on them when I'm there. He waters them when I'm not there. So, yes, I don't see them every day. But the work is my own.

I have now brought several of them home.

 

[namnhi]

What exactly is "wrong" with this? It is the tree that wins the award.

It is wrong to have one name attached to something when that person has nothing to do with it. So tell me why we let our kids go to school and do their own work? Why don't we just hire someone to do it for them?

 

[JudyB]

It is wrong to have one name attached to something when that person has nothing to do with it.

"Nothing" to do with it? I would guess they paid a lot of money for it. Or paid someone to style it, and keep it healthy. If they didn't do this, would the tree exist? Would it be shown? Do I care who did what? No, I only care about seeing great trees being brought forward, and the shows that are resulting.

I imagine that this is getting off topic, and I'm sorry that I stuck my toe out there...Same old argument...

 

[rockm]

[

It is wrong to have one name attached to something when that person has nothing to do with it. So tell me why we let our kids go to school and do their own work? Why don't we just hire someone to do it for them?

Oh, c'mon. Your knickers are in a twist over money and arbitrarily at that. "Patrons" have a very, very, VERY long history in art.

As for the kids comparison, trees are trees, not kids. Kids aren't crafts.

So, beyond deciding that some arbitrary price is a line in the sand on what can be entered in a competition, how much work do you have to do on your own trees to qualify as "authentic" bonsai material? If you take a class with a 20 year professional to learn how to work your tree, does that disqualify you from exhibiting that tree because another competitor can't afford (or won't bother with) a lesson? Is a week long intensive "bring your own tree" workshop less acceptable in a tree's background, than a one-day workshop with a lesser instructor? One guy paid $1,000 for the weeklong event, while the one-day guy paid $25. Is cheaper and less experienced preferable in an exhibit tree and owner?

 

[namnhi]

We will never be on the same page on this. Definitely two different camps. Thats okay. No hard feelings to anyone.