2016 US National Bonsai Exhibition

I understand very well that for Bill and his event it us all about just the trees... I get this, he cannot play hall monitor and go down the route of who did or did not work on a tree. He has enough going on, without having to do this.

But, I do believe the discussion is part of a bigger picture and one that rightfully should be asked... and I see no problem with one doing so. And in a lot of ways questions the future of what we as people doing the art would like to see happen as bonsai continues to progress into the future...

I understand that in places like Japan, most of the trees that win every year are actually owned by people who have lots if money and they have people do the work on them. However, just because they do something a certain way in Japan, does that necessarily mean we want too, or should do it here? It is interesting to ponder...

I mean how would say one feel if down the road this led to having CEO'S from Walmart, or Goldman Sachs, etc... buying multi million dollar trees from Japan and bringing them over here to now be a part of our American Bonsai scene, and exhibitions. Or even Corporation backed trees?

Now, some may say this is far fetched and is going off the deep end... but really is it? I mean, as far as I see there are no actual rules saying one cannot do this. Right?

And how would something like this effect the current scene? I mean after a while I think folks might get upset if the trees year after year are brought to you by Exxon...

How, would something like this affect the industry? I mean yeah... currently there are lots of folks selling trees and doing work on trees here... but what if people started flying folks in from all over the world to set up, maintain, etc... Some of the folks that are at the top of the game here, might be able to compete... but what about the rest?

And seeing we are such a capitalist society, what happens if one of them gets the bright idea that folks who work on their tree's should have to do it for free... or even have to pay to do it? For the privilege of working on their trees and the notoriety... A novel thought, that I surprised someone in Japan has not yet figured out...

Ok, maybe this is all going off the deep end!

This is why I like the notion that people actually doing the work themselves! Of taking pride in the fact that they spent years doing the work themselves, learning how to do the work and that they are representing who they are and where they come from...
And most importantly everyone who does bonsai at one point in time if they do work hard, can participate.

This is comforting... nothing snobby about it!
I don't ever expect to win an award and I do not necessarily do bonsai to just try and perhaps one day win an award... quite the contrary, but it does give someone a goal to strive for... not the award itself, but the knowing that all the hard work you have put in trying to become good and master the art, is paying off. And that you are being recognized for doing this by your peers and the Bonsai community.

I mean, even if you have no notion of trying to win an award, or even exhibit your trees, it is nice to see when you at least post something up, here on this site... that other people think your work is good and you are on the right path.

So, yeah... it may be all about the trees... but it will always feel like someone is cheating when they see someone not taking the same pride, and time that others have spent trying to get where they are at... and seeing some just buy a nice tree and not do the work.

These people in my opinion are kinda like the Tanuki of Bonsai... Not really the real Macoy... but sure do look good fooling everyone.

EDIT... Sorry wanted to add one more thing...
On the flip side, I also like seeing my fellow artist's progression. I like the notion that they see mine as well... it keeps us all moving! If one year you show up at show and see one of your friends pulling out some amazing stuff, you think crap... I better get to work! This is comforting as well...
 
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A tree is a tree... doesn't matter who style or who taking care of it.

Exactly, this is all that matters in a show!

We pay other people to grow our food, we pay other people to build our houses, etc. The end product is all that matters...
 
A lot of interesting discussions!
My wife and I are hobbyists, and we were honored to have my tree and her kusamono won Finest Tropical Bonsai and Finest Companion Plants at the US Nationals. I started working on this ficus 19 years ago, and it was a $15 pre-bonsai, and her kusamono is virtually "free" since she uses a lot of garden weeds.

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There is no line for us because we just enjoy working on our bonsai and kusamono. If someone wants to pay top dollars for a tree to win an award, go for it! Two diverge roads lead to the same end point, BETTER BONSAI IN THE US, regardless which one you choose.
 
It has been posted here that we should all go over to another thread...

Let me just say, I sadly fell for that and wouldn't waste my time if I was anyone reading this. Same old same old, at the Nut.
 
It has been posted here that we should all go over to another thread...

Let me just say, I sadly fell for that and wouldn't waste my time if I was anyone reading this. Same old same old, at the Nut.
No, if you have something to say that pertains to the National Show, please continue to post it here.

The discussion of who should get credit for the tree if a professional has worked on it goes over to the other thread.
 
No, if you have something to say that pertains to the National Show, please continue to post it here.

The discussion of who should get credit for the tree if a professional has worked on it goes over to the other thread.
With all due respect Adair...
You are not a hall monitor.
You don't get to dictate what people do,
Just does not work this way....
 
It has been posted here that we should all go over to another thread...

Let me just say, I sadly fell for that and wouldn't waste my time if I was anyone reading this. Same old same old, at the Nut.

Adair asked that the discussion of question of whose tree it is be moved to the other thread so we don't continue to pollute this one with it.

What's wrong with that? Why is that "same old same old" to you? Its not a diversion or a conspiracy just an attempt to not further muddy an otherwise nice thread about an awesome show.

Or is it because people are not agreeing with you and are not afraid to say it?
 
Adair asked that the discussion of question of whose tree it is be moved to the other thread so we don't continue to pollute this one with it.

What's wrong with that? Why is that "same old same old" to you? Its not a diversion or a conspiracy just an attempt to not further muddy an otherwise nice thread about an awesome show.

Or is it because people are not agreeing with you and are not afraid to say it?
I not sure i know what you are talking about with conspiracies or diversions.And people disagree with me all the time... nothing new?

There was a very good conversation going on right here regarding the subject matter.
Nothing that was said by anyone that I have seen was mudding or taking away from the subject of the thread. People want to talk about what happened at Nationals, because they are excited about it. The discussion is what happened at Nationals.

This had very little to do with me... you and Adair now are turning nothing into something here. And making me a part of it. I suggested people not go to Adair ' s thread because it is just a train wreck and is going to be one big fight. Like the same old same old story here at the Nut. This is why I suggested people not go... because clearly Adair asked for it to be a train wreck... He quite literally set up a situation with the tittle of his thread to have differing views duke it out. Anyone who has been around this place long enough knows very well that if you ask a question such as Adair asked, the discussion is going to get quite heated and someone is going to get into a fight over nothing. It stupid and it is silly. Adair started the thread to prove his point.

Now, why should anyone with any Ioda of common sense want to go there and see that or be a part of that?

I don't want to be a part of that...
Especially seeing the conversation that was being held here actually was none of that! People were actually doing well, and in fact their was a very good interaction that was taking place, where people were expressing their views, listening and actually reading people's views, perhaps disagreeing here and there... but funny enough and oddly enough being quite civil and respectful of each other. It was actually nice for a change.

So, I would suggest you take care of what you need to do... and worry less about what others do. It's funny, this conversation and Adair trying to tell people what they should and should not do, seems to be "muddying" this thread more than the discussion that was taking place. I wash my hands of what you and Adair are now doing... this is on you guys.
Thanks!
 
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I nit sure i know what you are talking about with conspiracies or diversions.And people disagree with me all the time... nothing new?

There was a very good conversation going on right here regarding the subject matter.
Nothing that was said by anyone that I have seen was mudding or taking away from the subject of the thread. People want to talk about what happened at Nationals, because they are excited about it. The discussion is what happened at Nationals.

This had very little to do with me... you and Adair now are turning nothing into something here. And making me a part of it. I suggested people not go to Adair ' s thread because it is just a train wreck and is going to be one big fight. Like the same old same old story here at the Nut. This is why I suggested people not go... because clearly Adair asked for it to be a train wreck... He quite literally set up a situation with the tittle of his thread to have differing views duke it out. Anyone who has been around this place long enough knows very well that if you ask a question such as Adair asked, the discussion is going to get quite heated and someone is going to get into a fight over nothing. It stupid and it is silly. Adair started the thread to prove his point.

Now, why should anyone with any Ioda of common sense want to go there and see that or be a part of that?

I don't want to be a part of that...
Especially seeing the conversation that was being held here actually was none of that! People were actually doing well, and in fact their was a very good interaction that was taking place, where people were expressing their views, listening and actually reading people's views, perhaps disagreeing here and there... but funny enough and oddly enough being quite civil and respectful of each other. It was actually nice for a change.

So, I would suggest you take care of what you need to do.
Thanks!

The convo over there is pretty much the same as here. It goes beyond the Nationals, and I think it's a valid convo to have but doesn't belong in this thread which is why Adair asked to move it.

I suggest you keep your suggestions to yourself and not try to tell me what I should do, pay attention to or read on a public forum.
 
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The convo over there is pretty much the same as here. It goes beyond the Nationals, and I think it's a valid convo to have but doesn't belong in this thread which is why Adair asked to move it.

I suggest you keep your suggestions to yourself and not try to tell me what I should do, pay attention to or read on a public forum
There is no actual "convo" as you put it... taking place over there. It is the "Adair story"... with people telling him his tree is awesome, people not actually reading before commemting, and people talking past each other and trying to insult others.

Is this what constitutes a "convo" to you? If so, you sell yourself short and don't ask much of people.

I would agree that yes, it does go beyond Nationals... like into some far off land with trolls and fiends...

I do have to say I find it quite amusing that you get so upset, over the thought of someone telling you what to do, while quite literally telling someone what they should do...
 
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There is no actual "convo" as you put it... taking place over there. It is the "Adair story"... with people telling him his tree is awesome, people not actually reading before commemting, and people talking past each other and trying to insult others.

Is this what constitutes a "convo" to you? If so, you sell yourself short and don't ask much of people.

I would agree that yes, it does go beyond Nationals... like into some far off land with trolls and fiends...

I do have to say I find it quite amusing that you get so upset, over the thought of someone telling you what to do, while quite literally telling someone what they should do...

You're wrong.

The only troll I see here is you, King Troll Stacey

Now this thread is futher fucked because you have to be a stubborn child, have a tantrum and insist on keeping it here.

Might as well lock or delete it because Stacey is too stubborn, lazy or prideful or all three to type in another thread and insists on continuing to have a detracting "convo" in a thread about what is now a totally different topic.

Great job Stacey
Heres an attaboy for ya.
 
Wow...

I guess I gotta file this in the "no good deed goes unpunished" folder!

Lol!!!

Stacey, you seem to twist everything and make sure verything into a vendetta. I'm not into that.

All I was trying to do was take the discussion of professionals working on trees off the Nationals thread. Bill made it clear he didn't care who does the work, he just wants good trees.

Perhaps I should have named the new thread ""What are your feelings about Professionals working on trees". Would that have been better?

And I'm sorry to somehow offended you by showing how my tree came to be developed. By a professional.

I guess next time I decide to post a thread I need to ask your permission in advance.
 
Wow...

I guess I gotta file this in the "no good deed goes unpunished" folder!

Lol!!!

Stacey, you seem to twist everything and make sure verything into a vendetta. I'm not into that.

All I was trying to do was take the discussion of professionals working on trees off the Nationals thread. Bill made it clear he didn't care who does the work, he just wants good trees.

Perhaps I should have named the new thread ""What are your feelings about Professionals working on trees". Would that have been better?

And I'm sorry to somehow offended you by showing how my tree came to be developed. By a professional.

I guess next time I decide to post a thread I need to ask your permission in advance.
I twisted nothing...
I commented on your thread, it went south...
I suggested people not go there because of the way people were acting, this is all.

I did this, because I was hoping we could carry on a discussion in a manner that was polite.

You and who ever that is... began to try and tell people on a forum when and where they should post. I did not come looking for a fight, and I would be more than happy to get back to the discussion.

This is my last reponse... you carry on, not ruining a thread you are ruining.
 
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I twisted nothing...
I commented on your thread, it went south...
I suggested people not go there because of the way people were acting, this is all.

I did this, because I was hoping we could carry on a discussion in a manner that was polite.

You and who ever that is... began to try and tell people on a forum when and where they should post. I did not come looking for a fight, and I would be more than happy to get back to the discussion.

This is my last reponse... you carry on, not ruining a thread you are ruining.
I know it appears that I made that post to go to my new thread in response to yours, since it was posted directly after it...

But I was already typing my post when yours posted.

Believe me, this has NOTHING yo do with you! It was more about the guy who says it's wrong to have someone else style your tree.

Geez, Stacey, believe it or not, the world does not revolve around you! At least, not all the time! Lol!!!

Common... have a sense of humor! Life is too short...
 
I know it appears that I made that post to go to my new thread in response to yours, since it was posted directly after it...

But I was already typing my post when yours posted.

Believe me, this has NOTHING yo do with you! It was more about the guy who says it's wrong to have someone else style your tree.

Geez, Stacey, believe it or not, the world does not revolve around you! At least, not all the time! Lol!!!

Common... have a sense of humor! Life is too short...
Adair, you don't think it is wrong to take credit for something that you didn't do? You seem to know exactly what to quote so that your the audience will be in your favor. I do think Sawgrass has his points... and everyone is kind of gang up and try to shut him up. Why do we have to try so hard to prove someone is wrong when there is no right or wrong in the topic being discussed?
 
Adair, you don't think it is wrong to take credit for something that you didn't do? You seem to know exactly what to quote so that your the audience will be in your favor. I do think Sawgrass has his points... and everyone is kind of gang up and try to shut him up. Why do we have to try so hard to prove someone is wrong when there is no right or wrong in the topic being discussed?
Oh geez, we're back to square one again!

Who is taking credit for something they didn't do? Give us one solid example.
 
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