“Japanese Bonsai”

[Forsoothe!]

I might point out that a high percentage of yamadori, especially the very highly styled ones, kinda sorta don't follow any rules at all. I don't like them but they are very highly prized in the bonsai world. I suppose they look like trees up on mountaintops, but maybe because I'm a flatlander they just don't look real to me. As a matter of fact, shohin don't look real to me either, especially Pines which if you scale them up their needles would scale to two feet long. That quirk in my mind's eye may be a product of my lifetime of working in manufacturing and making things from other people's blueprints. When I look at a print my mind scales it up to its finished size. My trees reflect this lack of admiration of trees that don't look real to me and I suppose most people would consider my trees pedestrian and not artistic. So be it.

 

[Djtommy]

I think I need to clarify how bonsai looks like.

 

[leatherback]

Sorry all. Just sick of the posts that assume “rules” codified by John Naka to simplify the art of bonsai to the completely uninformed Americans when he began teaching them are still worth arguing about.

Some of the best bonsai break all the rules you can think of. But the person developing that bonsai did not create this tree on its first attempt.
Every year people start in the hobby. Every year people need to learn the basics. Rules are the beginning of the basics. learn the rules so you can break them on purpose with intent.

Stupidly following the rules when working a tree, will make mostly for boring bonsai. But bonsai.
Cutting and wiring trees without any guiding principles will most of the time make a hacked bush. Only few have the artistic insight to create a realistic looking tree from the start.

It is never time to let go of the fundamental principles upon which artistry is based.

 

[AlainK]

Jelle, I couldn't agree more, you said it all !

 

[Davidlpf]

The description of the video states "Potted plants are not bonsai. A bonsai is a work of art made according to a set rule. Please study the rules by all means."

Rules are not laws. They are guidelines. The Japanese are very good at following rules meticulously. But if you never color outside of the lines, you can never truly innovate. On the contrary, if you only color outside the lines with no respect or understanding for the rules, you end up with an abstract blob known as "modern art".

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”​

― Pablo Picasso

It couldn't be said better.

 

[Adair M]

Learning the rules, and learning “why” the rules make for better bonsai is important. Trees, however, don’t follow the rules when they grow. So, you will be presented with trees that have “broken the rules” when they were grown, and now you want to make a bonsai out of it.

Some trees can be manipulated so they will be more in line with the rules, some can’t. But if you understand the purpose of the rule, you can apply the principle, even if it doesn’t “follow the rule”. My avatar tree is an example.

 

[MrWunderful]

Not saying anything bad about John Naka. It’s just time to move beyond the basics he taught.

Show us your trees. That is a big statement to make, referring to a pioneer’s teachings as “basics”

 

[AlainK]

That is a big statement to make, referring to a pioneer’s teachings as “basics”

As far as "style" is concerned, I don't have anything to say but compliments.

But things evolve : there are more daring approcahes to style that are worth considering, and about cultivation, soil mix for instance, progress has been made in the past decades.

For instance, I love Géricault's or Norman Rockwell's paintings. But Van Gogh, Dali, and even Miro are great too. Different atmospheres, different feelings, different times.

"Bonsai "Art"" shouldn't be mummified, that doesn't mean we should get rid of, or despise all that was done before.

Chagall :



John Naka :



So evocative, so powerful, so beautiful...

 

[Forsoothe!]

Picasso may be the antitheses of rules, perhaps making more than he broke. Much of modern art is infamous and much of it is the product of screwed-up people and downright ugly. Modern art cannot be compared or contrasted with bonsai, or at least I hope it never comes to that.

 

[Zach Smith]

Not saying anything bad about John Naka. It’s just time to move beyond the basics he taught.

I'll bite. Saying it's time to move beyond Naka's (or any master of his level's) basics is, IMO, saying to a concert musician that he/she needs to move beyond playing scales. Or that pro athletes need to move beyond fundamentals. Of course the musicians don't play just scales and the athletes don't just do fundamentals. I'd propose that we all should be grounded in bonsai design basics, and when we move beyond those and create artistic trees that are outside the basics, then that's a wonderful thing.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think we all agree here but all in different phrasing with different nuances and different emphasis.

I'm getting [generic entry] of these semantic battles of who's the best describer of what bonsai should be. It's not me, so for me the discussion ended there.
I'm trying bonsai because it's fun. That's what matters to me.

 

[AlainK]

Trees, however, don’t follow the rules when they grow.

Oui, yes, ja, tak, to jest prawda.

 

[clem]

You should listen to the Asymmetry episode Bonsai Mirai did about John Naka. It was one of their earliest. Just to boil it down quickly and oversimplified, Ryan Neil thinks Naka was amazing and that his "rules" were and still are great guidelines but were never intended to be commandments that should be obeyed at all costs.

The next pic isn't good quality, but i keep this chokkan tree styled by Naka in 1960 for inspiration. I've rarely seen better styled chokkan than this one (natural look + asymetry) ->

 

[AlainK]

Très, très bel exemple. Très naturel. Superbe à tous points de vue.

Merci.

 

[clem]

c'est l'arbre principal de la foret de Goshin que tu as postée plus haut. Je le préférais sous cette forme chokkan qu'en forêt d'ailleurs, même si la forêt Goshin est très connue.

Some people say that Naka's style is old fashioned/outdated but this chokkan tree is still a very good example of natural/naturalistic

 

[sorce]

I think I need to clarify how bonsai looks like.
View attachment 345464

That's cool....

But I hate that EVERY drawing of a bonsai for a logo breaks the rules.

That's the problem ultimately

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

I think I'll close with one more observation that comes via the progression of this thread: What matters to me, maybe because I'm luckier than smart, is that if you arrive at some point in your pursuit of bonsai that you can make trees that please yourself while not embarrassing yourself, it doesn't matter that you don't like this or that, or can't make this or that that others make or like, then you have won the game.

 

[Adair M]

I think I'll close with one more observation that comes via the progression of this thread: What matters to me, maybe because I'm luckier than smart, is that if you arrive at some point in your pursuit of bonsai that you can make trees that please yourself while not embarrassing yourself, it doesn't matter that you don't like this or that, or can't make this or that that others make or like, then you have won the game.

If you’re happy with where you are in your bonsai career, that’s fine. But don’t denigrate those who aspire to higher levels.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I'm still learning how to keep trees alive, mainly, and trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can. Maybe in 10 or 20 years, I'll have a knowledgeable opinion on the old rules.

Thank you to everyone willing to share their knowledge and experience.

 

[clem]

I'm still learning how to keep trees alive, mainly, and trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can. Maybe in 10 or 20 years, I'll have a knowledgeable opinion on the old rules.

Some rules are still and will always be "alive" / "important". Take a look at great Bonsai masterpieces around the world to check..
In my opinion :
1-asymmetry (same as paintings/sculptures etc) even on chokkan (vertical trunk) ;
2-depth : rear branch(es) is almost always here, sometimes not visible because of foliage or other side branches, but there.
3-proportion/balance right-left/stability : a thin slant style trunk should wear lightweight foliage/branch mass. A shakan with a small/weak nebari and big & heavy branches will look unstable/unbalanced as if it was about to fall down. Proportions between the size of the tree & the size of the leaves. Proportion between the size of the trunk & the volume of foliage (and diameter of branches) in order to make the Bonsai "credible"/well balanced. It may vary, depending on your personnal style, but it is good to know those rules before transgressing them.
4-Rules of association between the tree and the pot. Although it has changed (and may continue to change) during time (the pots used to be bigger in old Kokufu-ten exhibitions), although it depends on countries (Taiwan Bonsai pot are sometimes more coloured/flashy), there are rules to chose a right pot and the position of the tree in the pot is based on rules too.

Dunno if we can call it a rule, but a good Bonsai always have a good trunk (tapper, character given by the bark, shari, jins, movement etc) and a good nebari/base. It is said to be the most important : trunk & base. Banches are very important too (position, size, tapper, movement)

Hope that other people here will give other "main rules" to help you get more knowledge, because those "main"/intangible rules are important ... to follow or at least to know.