“Japanese Bonsai”

[MrWunderful]

If it aint a tater its garbage.

Bar Branches = big money

If you dont use sterilized pure akadama mined from the emperor’s personal stash, your trees should be on the burnpile.

I know a guy that bare roots old conifers every year. After, They flourish indoors under the warmth of his heater vent and 30w led desk lamp.

 

[Clicio]

If you dont use sterilized pure akadama

To be honest, hard Akadama works very well.

 

[MrWunderful]

To be honest, hard Akadama works very well.

I know I have easy access to it

 

[Iconoclast]

Is this your tree?

Of course not. It’s watermarked by the owner.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sorry all. Just sick of the posts that assume “rules” codified by John Naka to simplify the art of bonsai to the completely uninformed Americans when he began teaching them are still worth arguing about.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Sorry all. Just sick of the posts that assume “rules” codified by John Naka to simplify the art of bonsai to the completely uninformed Americans when he began teaching them are still worth arguing about.

Personally not a fan of rules however few friends will you make belittling name of great American Bonsai master and graduate of WWII internment camp who loved little trees and wished to help others see them as he did. Remember it was he who famously said "Make Bonsai look like tree. not tree look like Bonsai" In truth slavishly following rules seems not his style nor passion.
Also most Japanese Bonsai practitioners not arrogant enough to call selves "artists" and neither should anyone else.

 

[Enfield Snapper]

Sorry all. Just sick of the posts that assume “rules” codified by John Naka to simplify the art of bonsai to the completely uninformed Americans when he began teaching them are still worth arguing about.

You should listen to the Asymmetry episode Bonsai Mirai did about John Naka. It was one of their earliest. Just to boil it down quickly and oversimplified, Ryan Neil thinks Naka was amazing and that his "rules" were and still are great guidelines but were never intended to be commandments that should be obeyed at all costs.

 

[MrWunderful]

Sorry all. Just sick of the posts that assume “rules” codified by John Naka to simplify the art of bonsai to the completely uninformed Americans when he began teaching them are still worth arguing about.

Can you point me to some of these posts? Im a triangle tree rules guy myself.

 

[coachspinks]

You should listen to the Asymmetry episode Bonsai Mirai did about John Naka. It was one of their earliest. Just to boil it down quickly and oversimplified, Ryan Neil thinks Naka was amazing and that his "rules" were and still are great guidelines but were never intended to be commandments that should be obeyed at all costs.

I think this is a good description of how he looked at the rules. I was lucky enough to be around him several times in the 80's and this is the way he explained them when I was there. The person I worked for was a noted artist, paint and drawing, not bonsai. But he also did bonsai. He and John Naka had several deep discussions about rules in bonsai and in a number of different mediums. At the time I was a young dummy and have very little artistic ability, but one of my takes is that the rules help us mortals create. Those who are truly gifted artists can go beyond the rules.

 

[Eckhoffw]

I think it’s wise to concentrate less on rules, and more on technique.
More doing, less nit picking. Get inspired-work on trees.

 

[Adair M]

The whole idea behind the “rules” is just a way to describe why good bonsai look better than bad bonsai.

We have all seen good and bad bonsai, right? What is it about the “good” bonsai that make them look “good”?

Conversely, what is it about the ”bad” bonsai that makes them look “bad”?

In general, “good” bonsai have certain attributes that “bad” bonsai don’t have. The converse is true, too.

So, the “rules” is a way to document those attributes.

Does that mean that every tree must follow all the rules to be considered “good”? Of course not. Just because a “good” tree does not follow every rule mean that the rules are invalid, either. In nature, there is always a certain amount of randomness. Randomness, does not follow any rule. So, allowing some randomness to occur in our bonsai aids in their beauty.

As an example:

Look at my avatar. See the lower right branch? In the image, it appears to perfectly placed, the branch coming off the trunk. Well, it’s not. That branch actually comes off the trunk on the backside, and it’s been curled around to ”look” like it’s in the perfect position. Now, the “rules” say the the lowest primary branch, the Number 1 branch, should come off the side of the trunk at about a 60 degree angle, and move towards the viewer. Well, I can’t do that, there’s no branch at that position, But moving a branch from the back, bringing it forward so that the foliage is where “we want it to be”, fools the eye. Making it appear that it “follows the rules”. In fact, I put this tree in a show in Kannapolis, where Bill Valavanis gave a public critique. He described it as “an example of a perfect informal upright tree”. Well, it’s not, but it looks like one, I suppose. At least, that’s what I’m shooting for.
.

 

[Adair M]

Personally not a fan of rules however few friends will you make belittling name of great American Bonsai master and graduate of WWII internment camp who loved little trees and wished to help others see them as he did. Remember it was he who famously said "Make Bonsai look like tree. not tree look like Bonsai" In truth slavishly following rules seems not his style nor passion.
Also most Japanese Bonsai practitioners not arrogant enough to call selves "artists" and neither should anyone else.

Napa did say that. But he is also the author of a thorough description and definition of ”the rules” in his book, Bonsai Techniques. He does state that no tree should follow “exactly” his diagrams, but the diagrams, ratios, description of ”good” and “bad” branching, etc. are documented there. Many have taken his book to be a “Bible” of bonsai.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I think we call them rules and not laws because they are intended to guide us when we don't know what else to do. As many have already said, if you see something more creative, or even contrary to the rules, Hell yes, go for it. This is an art, it is practiced on many levels by many different people, and the only usable definition of "art" is, it is a product of a skilled person and is obviously better than ordinary. Others may add fine points to that.

 

[Paradox]

I think calling them "rules" is a misnomer.
Rules denote things that should not be broken but as we know not every tree adheres to the "rules" and there are many very good trees that don't follow all the rules.
Perhaps they should be considered collectively as a "guide" or "manual of best practices" instead.

 

[Arlithrien]

One thing is the bonsai that Japanese people do, and another very different what other people think that Japanese people do. Not all the Japanese bonsai look the same, are they?

Cheers

The description of the video states "Potted plants are not bonsai. A bonsai is a work of art made according to a set rule. Please study the rules by all means."

Rules are not laws. They are guidelines. The Japanese are very good at following rules meticulously. But if you never color outside of the lines, you can never truly innovate. On the contrary, if you only color outside the lines with no respect or understanding for the rules, you end up with an abstract blob known as "modern art".

 

[Iconoclast]

Personally not a fan of rules however few friends will you make belittling name of great American Bonsai master and graduate of WWII internment camp who loved little trees and wished to help others see them as he did. Remember it was he who famously said "Make Bonsai look like tree. not tree look like Bonsai" In truth slavishly following rules seems not his style nor passion.
Also most Japanese Bonsai practitioners not arrogant enough to call selves "artists" and neither should anyone else.

Not saying anything bad about John Naka. It’s just time to move beyond the basics he taught.

 

[_#1_]

Not saying anything bad about John Naka. It’s just time to move beyond the basics he taught.

What is the basic that he teaches?

And what do you mean by moving "beyond the basic"?

 

[Forsoothe!]

There's nothing wrong with a set of guidelines to start with. You need a starting point, and can deviate from there to wherever art and taste, -good or bad-, takes you. The starting point guidelines/rules establish the difference between bonsai and not bonsai but don't limit creativity. Lots of bad trees observe the rules of bonsai, too. In fact, I'd be pleased if some of my detractors would post some trees here so I can nit-pick them to death.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

It’s just time to move beyond the basics he taught

Maybe show that you have first? I'm reminded of a lyric that quoted a giant: "Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold." You're out in the cold here unless you bring next level stuff like the bonsai equivalent of Einstein's theory of relativity.

 

[Vance Wood]

There is no definitive “Japanese style.” Forget the basic “rules” you’ve heard.

If you totally walk away from the tried and true rules of bonsi aritistically you will fail.