Evolution of Mirai Live

Bonsai Nut said:

You only release software early if you (1) are not competent (2) have an artificial "must hit" date or (3) want to save money by getting your customers to QA it for you. The fact that you are arguing that you should release software early so that you can figure out customer needs(!) is more than a little bass-ackwards.

Iterative development is NOT about releasing unfinished product, and then finishing it on your customer's dime. It's about releasing great software that constantly evolves with the needs of your customers, and with changing technology.

I personally wonder if he has gotten bogged down with content creation and is trying to pivot to something that takes less time, yet generates the same income. If I pay $60 for entertainment software, it better be a good game that gives me 20+ hours of AAA entertainment. If I pay $180 for bonsai content... it better not be a buggy app that tells me when to decandle my JBP.

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Or 4) You know customers will take it hook, line and sinker anyways because they trust the maker. See any gaming studio.

My opinion of Ryan has changed a whole lot lately. It's less and less about the evolution of bonsai as an art, and more and more about Ryan, the broken and rebuilt (2x) artist, the man who saves the Italian olives because the Italians can't, the man who saves the Sequoias because the Americans can't, the man who saves the world with his bonsai because no plant scientist ever can.. The podcasts lately gave me an icky vibe.

That, and the fact that bonsai prices on all platforms seem to make a huge price jump every time Mirai does a sale. If you know this is happening because of your platform, and you know that it potentially kills the artform for every beginner everywhere in the world.. And your goal is to spread the art of bonsai to every economical level and every person in the world.. Something doesn't add up. If you run a business, good for you. Make your profit! Spoil yourself! If you run a business and do altruistic claims without being altruistic in practice, you're rubbing me the wrong way and I'm going to be vocal about it.

The latest Little Things for Bonsai People podcast, and Oscar and his insane humbleness, have really solidified that opinion. Did you know they also released an app, that does almost - if not entirely - the same thing as Mirai mobile, and more? But cheaper? What's the release date of both?
Bonsai Empire: Dec 6.
Mirai Mobile: Dec 8.


Next Mirai podcast will be about how they're the first, and ONLY bonsai app in the world that does this!

Wires_Guy_wires said:

That, and the fact that bonsai prices on all platforms seem to make a huge price jump every time Mirai does a sale. If you know this is happening because of your platform, and you know that it potentially kills the artform for every beginner everywhere in the world.. And your goal is to spread the art of bonsai to every economical level and every person in the world.. Something doesn't add up. If you run a business, good for you. Make your profit! Spoil yourself! If you run a business and do altruistic claims without being altruistic in practice, you're rubbing me the wrong way and I'm going to be vocal about it.

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But, see, he's the one making everything better for bonsai artists and potters, by charging prices for what their work is truly worth. Don't mind that he has exclusive distro rights with some of the potters he promotes so heavily, or that some of these artists asked him not to mark up their work so heavily. It's Ryan Neil that's really making the entire community better

Wood said:

It's Ryan Neil that's really making the entire community better

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Cant tell whether it is sarcasm or you mean this.

Wood said:

But, see, he's the one making everything better for bonsai artists and potters, by charging prices for what their work is truly worth. Don't mind that he has exclusive distro rights with some of the potters he promotes so heavily, or that some of these artists asked him not to mark up their work so heavily. It's Ryan Neil that's really making the entire community better

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At first thought similarly. Yet much as we all really admire the person for the publicity, style and dash he has given the craft/art, and most of us do. Yet things seem to be a bit awry when considering the needs of basic and mid level bonsai students.

It seems patently obvious Ryan can not sustain the former model that made many of us so excited about developing bonsai. The newest model isn’t enticing, flawed, seemingly a downgrade - even at the highest level projected, at least to folks who have been working bonsai. Beginners ok - once the app is complete.

For example: Today was I refining the next six months work list and did not see a need to refer to the app.

As someone said previously, the library, even though poorly indexed, (a bit better now), stands as Ryan’s definitive body of work for students of bonsai. So far. Only time will tell if he will be able to develop a path to springboard off this effort to better serve students.

On the artist side Ryan continues along the cutting edge.

On the business side Ryan continues to try his best to create a robust upper level market for bonsai, pottery and myriad other professionals.

Finally, It seems a reason why Ryan is seemingly off message, (olives, sequoias, bristlecones etc) is he is exploring, searching and pushing the upper boundaries of his personal experience and ethos. This is something all good artists must do to further inform and improve their future work. Otherwise their work becomes predictable. As others follow the same stylistic patterns. their work, while still amazing can seem commonplace. …. So on that side I say more power to Ryan for searching, pushing new boundaries of his skills and ability.… and keep it up!

But Ryan is just one person. A flawed human like the rest of us. It’s amazing to me Ryan has been able to advance the hobby this far despite personal crisis, financial and professional demands.

I believe folks ought to make a concerted effort to ease up on him. (If one is bloody minded, oh well, nothing I say will change this.)
But if one doesn’t want to support him, just cancel your subscription.

That said, I wish everyone a really nice day.

cheers
DSD sends

You have to wonder how long what Ryan Neil is trying to do is sustainable given the small percentage of people that are willing to pay his prices.
To say nothing of his overhead given the limited audience.

leatherback said:

Cant tell whether it is sarcasm or you mean this.

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Heavy sarcasm

Deep Sea Diver said:

we all really admire the person for the publicity, style and dash he has given the craft/art, and most of us do. Yet things seem to be a bit awry when considering the needs of basic and mid level bonsai students.

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I really do appreciate the way that Ryan Neil always tries to push the boundary of bonsai as art and alternative definitions and expressions with it. But in a lot of ways, it feels like all of his choices really purposefully exclude mid-level people, or those who don't want to routinely start spending six figures

Yes. That can be one of the many takeaway impressions gleaned from the majority of Ryan’s streams , for sure.

Yet the message we take home is vastly different. One of getting expert advice, at a time of our choosing, to help deepen our understating of the knowledge, skills and abilities needed to become proficient in this hobby.

We both recognize that although we work on Museum quality trees weekly, our main goal is come home happy and use any information we can get to make the very best out of the trees in our own yard.

It is the recognition of the futility of trying to compare oneself to others when the information is of prime importance, nothing else, and appreciating the journey over time is the prize.

Our trees aren’t perfect… likely never will be, but we sure are enjoying working and visiting with them over the past years.

I know, sorta simplistic…. idealistic? Or perhaps, if one thinks hard about it… not?

Stay well
DSD sends

flor1 said:

the small percentage of people that are willing to pay his prices

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A few thousand people willing to pay 30 bucks a month still provides a nice baseline revenue stream, easing the need to sell and do travelling-artist workshops every weekend.

Wood said:

Heavy sarcasm

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OK. I am a little critical of the guy because of personality, which might just have been catching him on an off-day. ironically I prefer to work on my trees over watching hours of video, so he is not providing something I am after. I can see however how his work is pushing the envelop, and builds inspiration in people. Only when you see how far you can take this, will you be able to inspire to reach those levels. And inspiring is what he does do.

I man in our club has gone to one workshop with Ryan ($2500), and is signed up for another. The last show we had, he brought a MAME Ficus that he bought from Ryan......$750.00!!! To each his own, but that's way too pricey for my budget. No, that's not accurate. I CAN afford anything Mirai has, I just won't pay those kinds of prices. It's just not in my DNA.

the app got a new update today, with this feature that might ameliorate one of the big issues people have had:

Increased tree limits for standard to 25 trees per person and 75 trees per person for pro tiers

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Still no deciduous calendars though.

I really haven’t been using the app to track trees, and the calendar is kinda cool. I would love if the app had the library in it.

They should really make it more of a social network, the way Jooni did. So you can see other peoples trees and track their progress too.

Ruddigger said:

They should really make it more of a social network, the way Jooni did. So you can see other peoples trees and track their progress too.

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That should be optional but it would be nice.

Ruddigger said:

They should really make it more of a social network, the way Jooni did. So you can see other peoples trees and track their progress too.

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They should just put BonsaiNut as a menu option and load it into a web view in the app...