Japanese Maple cuttings [From start to finish: A Guide]

ShimpakuBonsai

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I am new here and new to bonsai. I started bonsai by collecting a mulberry seedling in September 2020 during the lockdown. Ever since then ive had a fascination with bonsai and growing trees. Now i have a huge collection incliding trident maples
So you're into bonsai for around 6 months and you think you know it all.
If I look at the thumbnails of your YT videos, I only see a bunch of drinking cups (McDonalds and the like) and I don't get a real bonsai vibe if I see that.

If well established forum members give you information and advice you should not start a discussion like you do.
My only conclusion is that there is something terribly wrong with your attitude and I would advice you to rethink about what you all said in the 2 topics you started on this forum.
 

Bonsai Nut

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There are a couple of things being kicked around on this thread that I think are pretty well-established, but probably should be repeated from a horticultural perspective just so people can wrap their minds around it. No, I am not going to pull reference materials because they are all in moving boxes right now. This is all off the top of my head :) (Though I highly recommend the Woody Plant Propagation Manual linked up above - particularly if you use rooting hormones, which can actually be harmful if you misuse them)

(1) Humidity. What's the deal with humidity? The deal is that with softwood maple cuttings, the cutting has no roots, so the water in the cutting is all that it will have for a long time - maybe a month if things go well. So you need to slow down the rate of transpiration from the leaf. How do you do this? (1) Place it in a high humidity environment (2) mist the leaves (not the soil) (3) keep it out of direct sun and wind. If you live in a high humidity environment (we just had three thunderstorms in the last three days) you may not need to dome your cuttings, and simply placing them in a bucket in a sheltered location may be enough. If you live in Southern California or Arizona it is not enough. Do NOT water the soil. Why are you watering the soil? The cutting has no roots. Just keep the soil damp only.

(2) Damping off / fungus. Maples are prone to fungus. Typical points of infection are new soft growth at the bud, or via a wound site (like the bottom of your cutting). How do you minimize the risk? (1) Use sterile media. (2) Do not over-water. (3) Sterilize the cutting wound (though I myself have never resorted to this). Starting with media, this is one reason why commercial growers often use perlite - because it is a baked media with no pathogens. I myself have been highly successful with rough-cut and screened peat, or peat with perlite, because peat has natural anti-fungal properties. At this stage some growers suggest dipping the cut site in a bleach or hydrogen peroxide solution (of various strengths) to sterilize the site, then let it dry, then plant it up. The point is you want to take a clean dry wound site and stick it in clean media. Then make sure you DON'T OVERWATER THE SOIL. This is a common mistake. The media should be moist only - just damp enough so young roots don't dry out. You do not want saturated soil, which will increase the likelihood of fungus or bacterial issues, or which may kill the young tender roots outright by not providing them with enough oxygen.

Once the roots are well-established, you can gradually reduce humidity, increase lighting, and water on a as-needed basis.
 
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Ive never had a maple cutting fail.

maybe its that garbage mud you are growing them in.
Yes maybe. Trees outside in nature dony grow in my garbage mud they grow in 100% perlite and sometimes in 50%perlite and 50%peatmoss. Those are the only conditions for plant growth.
I don't understand.....you are new to bonsai, failed 3 times yet have your method to prove that it will work......and on top of that has an attitude to go with it?
I dont understand this comment
 
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What's wrong with having an abundance of methods, approaches? Your username is the most arrogant name in the world i didnt expect you to have anything positive to say about anything.
😂😂😂😂

Where are deciduous cuttings propagated naturally without help from man?

Seeds can grow in mud on the side of a ditch.

If only there was an ideal substrate to give you the best results that experienced nursery growers have used millions of times 🧐 probably not though.

Looks like we need you to figure it out. We need you, to tell us how to do something a decent amount of us have already had success with.

But please, keep up the attitude. I personally am very impressed with your obvious knowledge and impeccable tact.
 
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😂😂😂😂

Where are deciduous cuttings propagated naturally without help from man?

Seeds can grow in mud on the side of a ditch.

If only there was an ideal substrate to give you the best results that experienced nursery growers have used millions of times 🧐 probably not though.

Looks like we need you to figure it out. We need you, to tell us how to do something a decent amount of us have already had success with.

But please, keep up the attitude. I personally am very impressed with your obvious knowledge and impeccable tact.
Also "in the wild" a tree falls and some of it ends up underground If that makes sense. Imagine a branch falls and touches the ground with such force that it buries itself. Its called layering. Thats how most cuttings are taken by nature. Some succulents just break off a branch and it roots from that cuttings without needing to be planted i.e. jades
 
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I didn’t read all the replies, seems like there’s some bickering. But here’s my input:

1. it’s not summer here in SA, it’s autumn/fall
2. I took and rooted around 20 JM cuttings this season in South Africa, mostly in spring and early summer. I think it’s too late to be taking cuttings now.
3. Seems like yours using regular garden soil. I used straight perlite. You want something light and airy. Maybe others have had success using garden dirt but why not rather use what’s tried and tested and what’s known to work?
4. You definitely need a humidity tent/done in our climate. I used one and don’t think JM cuttings would last long in our summer.

View attachment 363931
Again. This is great and an excellect piece of information but id like to reiterate: i have tried that. It did not work. Now i am trying something else. In the case that you have also failed i am going to keep updating you until i see success. Thank you
 
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I dont care about thumbnails i care about growing trees. You people love to talk so much but are clearly bored and arrogant jerks. You didnt even watch my videos. You clicked through them. You know absolutely nothing about me and what i do or who i am. You will rue the day. Mark my words
So you're into bonsai for around 6 months and you think you know it all.
If I look at the thumbnails of your YT videos, I only see a bunch of drinking cups (McDonalds and the like) and I don't get a real bonsai vibe if I see that.

If well established forum members give you information and advice you should not start a discussion like you do.
My only conclusion is that there is something terribly wrong with your attitude and I would advice you to rethink about what you all said in the 2 topics you started on this forum.
 
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There are a couple of things being kicked around on this thread that I think are pretty well-established, but probably should be repeated from a horticultural perspective just so people can wrap their minds around it. No, I am not going to pull reference materials because they are all in moving boxes right now. This is all off the top of my head :) (Though I highly recommend the Woody Plant Propagation Manual linked up above - particularly if you use rooting hormones, which can actually be harmful if you misuse them)

(1) Humidity. What's the deal with humidity? The deal is that with softwood maple cuttings, the cutting has no roots, so the water in the cutting is all that it will have for a long time - maybe a month if things go well. So you need to slow down the rate of transpiration from the leaf. How do you do this? (1) Place it in a high humidity environment (2) mist the leaves (not the soil) (3) keep it out of direct sun and wind. If you live in a high humidity environment (we just had three thunderstorms in the last three days) you may not need to dome your cuttings, and simply placing them in a bucket in a sheltered location may be enough. If you live in Southern California or Arizona it is NOT enough. Do NOT water the soil. Why are you watering the soil? The cutting has no roots. Just keep the soil damp only.

(2) Damping off / fungus. Maples are prone to fungus. Typical points of infection are new soft growth at the bud, or via a wound site (like the bottom of your cutting). How do you minimize the risk? (1) Use sterile media. (2) Do not over-water. (3) Sterilize the cutting wound (though I myself have never resorted to this). Starting with media, this is one reason why commercial growers often use perlite - because it is a baked media with no pathogens. I myself have been highly successful with rough-cut and screened peat, or peat with perlite, because peat has natural anti-fungal properties. Make sure when you take your cuttings, you allow the wound site to dry before you stick it in the soil. At this stage some growers suggest dipping the cut site in a bleach or hydrogen peroxide solution (of various strengths) to sterilize the site, then let it dry, then plant it up. The point is you want to take a clean dry wound site and stick it in clean media. Then make sure you DON'T OVERWATER THE SOIL. This is a common mistake. The media should be moist only - just damp enough so young roots don't dry out. You do not want saturated soil, which will increase the likelihood of fungus or bacterial issues, or which may kill the young tender roots outright by not providing them with enough oxygen.

Once the roots are well-established, you can gradually reduce humidity, increase lighting, and water on a as-needed basis.
This is the kind of information that i could not find. The information i sourced was all the same shit. Leave 2 leaves. Stick in himidity dome. It didnt work for me. But so far with the latest batch of cuttings i have done things differently. I expect good results. Thanks
 

leatherback

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MrWunderful

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Also "in the wild" a tree falls and some of it ends up underground If that makes sense. Imagine a branch falls and touches the ground with such force that it buries itself. Its called layering. Thats how most cuttings are taken by nature. Some succulents just break off a branch and it roots from that cuttings without needing to be planted i.e. jades
Cuttings, are not the same as layers. “Raft” trees, are not cuttings or layers (even though trees with parts not normally in the ground will root out).

I think you need to educate yourself a bit more.

maples and deciduous are not the same as succulents. Thats why I specified. But thank you for the entertainment!

ps. I appreciate your love for my username.
 
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SeanS

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Again. This is great and an excellect piece of information but id like to reiterate: i have tried that. It did not work. Now i am trying something else. In the case that you have also failed i am going to keep updating you until i see success. Thank you
I’ve seen your posts on Facebook, you used mud and a plastic bag over your cuttings in your garden shed. Those are not conditions conducive to rooting JM cuttings.

Good luck with your bumpy bonsai journey, let us know when our days will be rued. In the meantime the rest of us will be rooting cuttings and sipping shiners 🍻
 

ShimpakuBonsai

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You didnt even watch my videos. You clicked through them. You know absolutely nothing about me and what i do or who i am.
I watched one video, the one about your pine forest, and after only a few seconds I had seen enough.

I feel no need to get to know you better and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only member who thinks that way.
 

SeanS

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I’ve seen your posts on Facebook, you used mud and a plastic bag over your cuttings in your garden shed. Those are not conditions conducive to rooting JM cuttings.

Good luck with your bumpy bonsai journey, let us know when our days will be rued. In the meantime the rest of us will be rooting cuttings and sipping shiners 🍻
Never mind, it was someone else using mud and plastic bags on FB. Just had a look at your YouTube and see you use mud exclusively for your seedlings and sprouts. I’ve seen enough
 

leatherback

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I see no mention of it here.
Most of us poor sods do not have an automated misting setup, which ever 30 seconds puffs a little mist so the leaves stay moist continuously, and the soild does not get too wet. Putting trees in a tent / humidity chamber is very similar in function: You keep humidity at 100% all the time to the leaves cannot dry out.
 
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Most of us poor sods do not have an automated misting setup, which ever 30 seconds puffs a little mist so the leaves stay moist continuously, and the soild does not get too wet. Putting trees in a tent / humidity chamber is very similar in function: You keep humidity at 100% all the time to the leaves cannot dry out.
The misting is at regular intervals to allow for air circulation. I get it now. Also some of my cuttings are wilting but others are looking lush. The humidity dome is not a good idea fir people in climates like mine, its like i was steaming the plants alive. Even in the shade. So i suggest people who are failing to try rooting atleast a group of cuttings without any sort of humidity system. Youll cook your plants slowly and itll over stress them. I have silver birch cuttings which are behaving in the same manner. Some are wilting slowly while others seems fine. It is very exciting and i will post a picture update very soon.
 

leatherback

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climates like mine
I was wondering about that. Did not know SA had areas that went to -20C. Where do you live that it gets that cold in winter, yet so hot in summer that you are cooking plants in the shade?

I have only lived in Shingwedzi - KNP which never gets real cold.
 

Canada Bonsai

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The misting is at regular intervals to allow for air circulation. I get it now. Also some of my cuttings are wilting but others are looking lush. The humidity dome is not a good idea fir people in climates like mine, its like i was steaming the plants alive. Even in the shade. So i suggest people who are failing to try rooting atleast a group of cuttings without any sort of humidity system. Youll cook your plants slowly and itll over stress them. I have silver birch cuttings which are behaving in the same manner. Some are wilting slowly while others seems fine. It is very exciting and i will post a picture update very soon. [emphasis added]

You're not in a position to be making any suggestions.

I know you are not going to take this well, but i'm going to try to help you anyways: there are way too many things you've done wrong for you to be able to identify a single variable that is causing your failures. You've skipped ahead to blaming environment (humidity), but your procedure is totally off. Starting the cuttings on the right foot (see below) is the easiest thing to control, and probably the most important. To illustrate that point, consider that when i've run out of space in my propagation house, for fun i've planted cuttings in my vegetable garden with no humidity or mist, and success rates have been acceptable. This is not something I recommend doing, but again it shows the importance of good, clean, and confident technique and procedure.

Here are some annotations to accompany the attached images:

1 - Choose your branch. Perform the 'snap test'. You want to get a new shoot that 'snaps' (as opposed to flexing/bending). The shoot should 'snap' around the middle (the tip might still flex/bend, and the base might break). I take my cuttings as soon as they start 'snapping'. This is mid-May in eastern Canada. I take my branches early in the morning, before sunrise. Normally i water my trees in the morning, but the day before I take my cuttings I water my trees around 1pm. I don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. My parent plants are fertilized heavily (at the very upper limit of what is reasonable) as of early spring. I also don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. A lot of people dream of owning 1 big parent plant from which to take cuttings forever. This is a false hope, because juvenility is an important factor. My parent plants are always 3-5 years old, and are constantly rotating. This process is also important because it also allows me to select the parent plants with the best traits generation after generation.

2 - I take 1 internode with a stem long enough to bury 3-5cm in the substrate. Some people take 2 internodes, because they like to bury 1 node in the substrate. I've done both. They both worked equally for me, so i stopped burying nodes: a node buried is a cutting lost.

3 - This is the length I take

4 - Nowadays i use a grafting knife to cut/shave the base and expose cambium. In the image I am using scissors, but i prefer a grafting blade. I make 2 back-to-back cuts, as you would for a scion graft (I'm not going to explain scion grafting to you, and please don't go around saying it is undocumented LOL. Just google it!)

5 - I remove the leaf lobes. @Bonsai Nut explained the importance of humidity above. The reason for removing leaf lobes also has to do with reducing the rate of transpiration. You want as many factors as possible on your side in this race against the clock.

6 - I use 0.8% IBA rooting hormone. I also apply liquid cut paste to the tops. Some people don't, i do. Again, you want as many factors as possible in your favour.

7 - I place the cuttings in well-rinsed and well-watered substrate. Do not water after inserting cuttings because you will wash away the hormone. After this point I am misting so frequently that I don't have to water the substrate for 3-4 weeks (more than enough time for the hormone to do its job I think). My official recommendation for substrate is 3 parts perlite, and 1 part coco fibre husk (or pine bark). Use small particles, but not dust. In reality, i use whatever substrate happens to be closest to wherever i am standing. That's a privilege you earn after doing a few thousand of these per year for consecutive years. I'd start with perlite and coco husk or bark before trying anything else.

8 - This is a picture of a set-up i used to use at home while training with my teacher at his facility. That's a $29CAD 'mini greenhouse', with a $20CAD cool-mist humidifier. I would say that that's the bare minimum if you're semi-serious about this. I added the orbit misting nozzles (which you can see in the photo), connected to a hose timer and my garden hose. I forgot how long i was misting them, but it was something like 15 seconds every 10 minutes. You can do this by hand. I usually kept the door open and was able to keep humidity about 80-99% anyways. This tent received morning sun (sunrise to 11am), and was in shade for the rest of the day. Wetting the floor beneath the tent or placing a tray of water on the floor can help if you're having a hard time keeping humidity up. Bottom heat (see @leatherback's post) can help, but it's not necessary. Having it will be another factor on your side.

9 - Here is what they can look like by July or August of the same year (2-3 months post-cutting). I repot mine. I do not recommend that you repot yours. It is much safer to leave them in the tray, and repot in late winter/early spring the following year (9-10 months later). Winter protection is critical.

10 - Here is what they can look like in November (6 months post-cutting), best case scenario. Most of them will not push new growth like this, and that's fine.

Use sterilized tools and work area. re-sterilize in between parent plants. Use 1 tray/pot per parent plant.

To repeat what i said earlier in this thread: there are many factors and variables to control. You do not need all of them to be perfect, but when you deviate success rates drop.
 

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eryk2kartman

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If this is still unclear for some people now, they need laser correction - 'Cause this vision is a dream that's played by distorted perception....
 
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