Mid-level tools? Issues buying from American bonsai supply.

My experience just the opposite with American Bonsai. Great tools great customer service.
That's what I expected based upon a couple recommendations, but it unfortunately wasn't my experience. He was really nice on the phone when I first called about the issue, but when it came to getting the problem resolved, they really were not helpful. They had the shears for 10 days before I had to turn to PayPal and I still haven't gotten a refund.
 
I think the owner may have been upset that you went to PayPal so soon after your follow up email - less than 24 hours i believe? With the holiday, a longer turnaround is only fair I think. That said, no reason for it to take ten days for your refund and it's a little unprofessional for the owner to call you over it. Let's hope that this was just a miscommunication. Sorry you have to deal with this, thanks for sharing.

For what it's worth - I've only had good experiences with them
 
I think the owner may have been upset that you went to PayPal so soon after your follow up email - less than 24 hours i believe? With the holiday, a longer turnaround is only fair I think. That said, no reason for it to take ten days for your refund and it's a little unprofessional for the owner to call you over it. Let's hope that this was just a miscommunication. Sorry you have to deal with this, thanks for sharing.

For what it's worth - I've only had good experiences with them
Exactly, I completely agree. In my PayPal request for the money, my message said it might be an oversight on their part, but that 10 days was just too long. Regardless he called me and ashamed me which isn't cool
 
So you go onto a forum and start spilling your guts?
Not cool either.
They are a business and reviews are common culture. They should expect reviews for both outstanding work and if they are unprofessional. That is what a forum is for. It's only one experience and I appreciate those who replied here that they had a better experience. However, ABS had given me the run around and not lived up to their guarantee of 100% money back worry free: https://www.americanbonsai.com/warranty_a/253.htm

They SHOULD get bad publicity for that.
 
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So you go onto a forum and start spilling your guts?
Not cool either.
I completely disagree. He's doing a service to the community to let us know of negative experiences. One bad review doesn't mean the company is terrible, but they certainly should have handled this situation better. Every company, no matter how good, will from time to time have issues whether it's mistakes or product issues like this, but the mark of a good company is how well they handle the problems. Sounds like ABS hasn't handled this one very well at all.

I was actually planning on order a set of tools from them but I was waiting to see if they were going to have any Black Friday deals, it seems they are not. I may still order from them, but this has prompted me to do a bit more research and look for other options as well.
 
I completely disagree. He's doing a service to the community to let us know of negative experiences. One bad review doesn't mean the company is terrible, but they certainly should have handled this situation better. Every company, no matter how good, will from time to time have issues whether it's mistakes or product issues like this, but the mark of a good company is how well they handle the problems. Sounds like ABS hasn't handled this one very well at all.

I was actually planning on order a set of tools from them but I was waiting to see if they were going to have any Black Friday deals, it seems they are not. I may still order from them, but this has prompted me to do a bit more research and look for other options as well.
That's was my intent, to help others by sharing facts, both positive (the hybrid cutters were good, he was nice initially) and negative. I kinda regret posting because a couple here gave me a hard time for a good faith post. I agree, they certainly aren't terrible, but they also haven't kept up to their promise of 100% money back guaranteed and it's now going on 12 days since they got the shears back.
 
Good. You're out here smearing a guy over 10 bucks. Get over it.
I'm not smearing him. I'm writing facts about the situation. Its a review. It's not about the money but how I was treated. You should be ashamed for trying to censor a forum member for a good faith post. There are positive and negative reviews throughout this site, it's a purpose of a forum. Just keep replying, it will keep the thread at the top of the forum.
 
it's a little unprofessional for the owner to call you over it.
I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but when you dispute a PayPal charge, PayPal immediately goes to the vendor and requires them to contact you. I'm sure the owner wasn't doing it out of spite. If PayPal receives too many complaints about a vendor they may simply ban the vendor. This happened to a bonsai nursery with which I am familiar, and they never even fully understood why they were banned.

How much are you asking PayPal to reimburse you for? $45 for the shears? The whole thing seems a little strange... Why would he charge you $10 for shipping unless you got free shipping as part of your original order(?) Did you order just enough to qualify for free shipping, and are now returning the shears, so that he feels like he needs to charge you a small amount for original shipping in addition to not paying for your return shipping?

I agree that their 30 Day Guarantee needs to specifically state "shipping not included" or something similar. The words "receive 100% of your money back" are pretty specific, and could easily be understood to mean "including shipping".

Sorry you had a bad experience. I have purchased $100's of tools from them and have not had a problem, but I realize that everyone's experience is unique.
 
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As said, I think you are needlessly hard on a seller trying to make a living. Whether or not the tools had a defect is hard to judge, and between the seller and you. Loose tools can easily be tightened and are produced loose on purpose. Every person has they own preference, which you can already see from the responses in this thread. Making a rivet tighter is easy. Making it looser is hard. Bonsai scissors are opened and closed repeatedly many times: You want a tool that does this without friction, and the margin is narrow. So a loose rivet does not equal a faulty tool. How loose is too loose, that is tricky.

You pay more for your tools you get tools that are individually adjusted and inspected. You buy the more affordable tools, they are mass produced and may need fine-tuning. Personally I have similar experience with lenses. I bought a 1000+ dollar canon 5DII camera with lens as a set a while back and was not fully happy with the lens. I sent it back to canon, and was quoted 150E for fine-tuning. At first I though: Insane. I buy a semi-professional camera with lens in a kit to get the best match. They explained: In a kit we just pop a standard lens straight from the production line, and make it cost-effectve. Many people who buy a new body want new lenses, if they upgrade from a more basic model. So we provide a better lens. That being said: Each lens can be fine-tuned for focus and alignment. And on top of that, tuned to the body. What you buy in a kit is NOT post-production tuned. It is just standard settings which for most are fine and within tolerances set for the product you buy. But if you pay more, you get the extra work needed to get the maximum focus possible with the lenses in the setup.

As for posting this experience the way you did.. I am not sure you gave the seller a fair chance to respond. Correct. You return something, you would expect a response and taking 10 days to respond is long. So you reach out "Hey guys, what is going on?". But that is where I feel you went overboard. I think sending an email and expecting a response in less than a working day is a bit much. They do not sit behind the computer waiting for your email to come in. Then again, I tend to think of myself as a patient person when it comes to delays in responses..

If I look at my own mailbox, I aim to have all emails responded to within a working week. And I know it is not realistic at peek times.
so I emailed late last night. When I didn't get a response, I submitted a paypal request for my money back this afternoon

If indeed your concern it is that urgent, you could indeed better have called them instead..
shaming me for using paypal rather than calling him!

They are a business and reviews are common culture. They should expect reviews for both outstanding work and if they are unprofessional. That is what a forum is for.
Guess I have a different vision on what fora are for.

I kinda regret posting because a couple here gave me a hard time for a good faith post.
Well.. You post something on a forum, you are going to get people that agree, and people that don't. THAT is what fora are for. Exchange of ideas. It is not about giving people a hard time.
 
I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but when you dispute a PayPal charge, PayPal immediately goes to the vendor and requires them to contact you. I'm sure the owner wasn't doing it out of spite. If PayPal receives too many complaints about a vendor they may simply ban the vendor. This happened to a bonsai nursery with whom I am familiar, and they never even fully understood why they were banned.

How much are you asking PayPal to reimburse you for? $45 for the shears? The whole thing seems a little strange... Why would he charge you $10 for shipping unless you got free shipping as part of your original order(?) Did you order just enough to qualify for free shipping, and are now returning the shears, so that he feels like he needs to charge you a small amount for original shipping in addition to not paying for your return shipping?

I agree that their 30 Day Guarantee needs to specifically state "shipping not included" or something similar. The words "receive 100% of your money back" are pretty specific, and could easily be understood to mean "including shipping".

Sorry you had a bad experience. I have purchased $100's of tools from them and have not had a problem, but I realize that everyone's experience is unique.
It terms of the seller calling me, I get they have to contact me. I've sold tons of stuff on eBay, about 15 years ago, a good portion of my income came from selling rare guitar parts online. Part of contacting the buyer isn't shaking them or giving them a hard time.

I talked with them many times before returning the shears and they said I'd get my full refund, but not return shipping costs. I told them I expect them to cover return shipping too because the shears don't work, and to please inspect them upon return. When he first called me after the PayPal request for my money, he claimed we never spoke or emailed and that they never receieved the shears. He eventually implied his wife dropped the ball by not checking their po box at the front of their store for over 10 days and that she is supposed to check every two days. I did have free shipping originally, but it didn't even cross my mind they'd try to charge me that cost because of the 100% money back guarantee and from the multiple phone and email conversations. It's not 100% money back when I only get $25 back on $45 shears. Again it's less about the money than the principle, as some elitist forum member keeps bringing up. But I wouldn't have bought or returned these if I knew how they planned to handle this. Why should I pay $20 to try dysfunctional shears?

I agree most people have had good experiences, this is simply one bad one. Unfortunately, the people who used this thread to bash me have made it a much bigger deal, which is the last thing ABS would want.
 
As said, I think you are needlessly hard on a seller trying to make a living. Whether or not the tools had a defect is hard to judge, and between the seller and you. Loose tools can easily be tightened and are produced loose on purpose. Every person has they own preference, which you can already see from the responses in this thread. Making a rivet tighter is easy. Making it looser is hard. Bonsai scissors are opened and closed repeatedly many times: You want a tool that does this without friction, and the margin is narrow. So a loose rivet does not equal a faulty tool. How loose is too loose, that is tricky.

You pay more for your tools you get tools that are individually adjusted and inspected. You buy the more affordable tools, they are mass produced and may need fine-tuning. Personally I have similar experience with lenses. I bought a 1000+ dollar canon 5DII camera with lens as a set a while back and was not fully happy with the lens. I sent it back to canon, and was quoted 150E for fine-tuning. At first I though: Insane. I buy a semi-professional camera with lens in a kit to get the best match. They explained: In a kit we just pop a standard lens straight from the production line, and make it cost-effectve. Many people who buy a new body want new lenses, if they upgrade from a more basic model. So we provide a better lens. That being said: Each lens can be fine-tuned for focus and alignment. And on top of that, tuned to the body. What you buy in a kit is NOT post-production tuned. It is just standard settings which for most are fine and within tolerances set for the product you buy. But if you pay more, you get the extra work needed to get the maximum focus possible with the lenses in the setup.

As for posting this experience the way you did.. I am not sure you gave the seller a fair chance to respond. Correct. You return something, you would expect a response and taking 10 days to respond is long. So you reach out "Hey guys, what is going on?". But that is where I feel you went overboard. I think sending an email and expecting a response in less than a working day is a bit much. They do not sit behind the computer waiting for your email to come in. Then again, I tend to think of myself as a patient person when it comes to delays in responses..

If I look at my own mailbox, I aim to have all emails responded to within a working week. And I know it is not realistic at peek times.


If indeed your concern it is that urgent, you could indeed better have called them instead..



Guess I have a different vision on what fora are for.


Well.. You post something on a forum, you are going to get people that agree, and people that don't. THAT is what fora are for. Exchange of ideas. It is not about giving people a hard time.
Too long, didn't read.

But a forum IS for differences if opinion, I agree. But not for bullying as a means to try to censor someone's opinion and experience. I simply listed facts about a frustrating experience. I'm glad others had better experiences with ABS. You were inappropriate.
 
I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but when you dispute a PayPal charge, PayPal immediately goes to the vendor and requires them to contact you. I'm sure the owner wasn't doing it out of spite. If PayPal receives too many complaints about a vendor they may simply ban the vendor. This happened to a bonsai nursery with whom I am familiar, and they never even fully understood why they were banned.
Thank you for sharing, I was unaware. I retract the statement you quoted.
 
Why should I pay $20 to try dysfunctional shears?

I don't disagree. That's why I said - the whole thing sounds weird to me. Even if you as the vendor thought you were 100% in the right, why would you piss off a customer over $20? You'll end up spending $40 in personal time just arguing.

Once at a show, I was buying a new pair of long-handled scissors from them because I had dropped and broken the tips on my old pair. 100% my fault, and I was laughing because I seem to have poor dexterity handling tools. I seem to drop my scissors too often, and they always fall point down. The guy just handed me a new pair of scissors for free. It didn't strike me as the action of someone who would go to the mat over a $20 shipping charge.

But who knows? He clearly thinks he is justified in refusing to pay for shipping, while you clearly think you shouldn't have to. It is going to leave a poor experience for both parties - lose/lose.
 
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