Tycoss
Chumono
Love the lodgepole pine. It actually looks a lot like some of the subalpine lodgepole pine from around here, while still fitting in with the Japanese tradition. When it gets older and the bark darkens and flakes it will be brilliant.
Intelligent conversation of the Literati
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Can you give us an idea how large these two trees are?
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I was on Ebay looking for stands for vases. Came across this antique stand and it seemed to be the right size. Delivered yesterday and thought I would shoot a photo with the tree on it. Used a suiseki I have of a monk that I feel captures the essence.
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Not very high. Probably about 10 or 12 feet.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
Wow, I did join this conversation late. Sorry I missed this post but I am here now and I hope to get some good feedback.
I have read everything that has been posted about literati and whilst there is so much I agree with, there is also plenty that I do not agree with. But to each their own and who am I to say what it right or wrong.
I love literati style. It is definitely my most favourite style of bonsai. I have always seen literati as having trunks being slender and thin (I cannot say in relation to what I would measure the slender and thin, I personally just want to see it in the overall view). To me the trunks also need to show hardship. It has to show that it has been in a struggle. I feel the less foliage the better as it really shows that the tree is hanging on by the skin of its teeth and fighting to stay alive and that is all that the trunk can support.
So I am no expert but that is how I want literati to feel for me.
I have a wild olive (Olea europaea subsp. africana) that I inherited from my late father-in-law in 2014. It was pot grown since 1940 and the trunk was never given a chance to thicken up.
Apart from what I believe to be great deadwood running up the trunk of the tree, it had not been styled or shaped to resemble anything worthwhile.
I took a decision in August of 2016 to convert it into a literati because I felt that the trunk would really suit my vision of a literati. I removed one of the branches and did a severe cut back.
Aug 2016
I have left it to grow uninterrupted since Aug 2016 with plans to start working on the canopy in Spring 17 (September). I have many potential branches that I can wire into position to create a canopy.
With a monster energy can for size reference (6.3 inch tall Can)
I would love to hear thoughts and suggestions on this tree. Possible literati? Yes, No?
I have read everything that has been posted about literati and whilst there is so much I agree with, there is also plenty that I do not agree with. But to each their own and who am I to say what it right or wrong.
I love literati style. It is definitely my most favourite style of bonsai. I have always seen literati as having trunks being slender and thin (I cannot say in relation to what I would measure the slender and thin, I personally just want to see it in the overall view). To me the trunks also need to show hardship. It has to show that it has been in a struggle. I feel the less foliage the better as it really shows that the tree is hanging on by the skin of its teeth and fighting to stay alive and that is all that the trunk can support.
So I am no expert but that is how I want literati to feel for me.
I have a wild olive (Olea europaea subsp. africana) that I inherited from my late father-in-law in 2014. It was pot grown since 1940 and the trunk was never given a chance to thicken up.
Apart from what I believe to be great deadwood running up the trunk of the tree, it had not been styled or shaped to resemble anything worthwhile.
I took a decision in August of 2016 to convert it into a literati because I felt that the trunk would really suit my vision of a literati. I removed one of the branches and did a severe cut back.
Aug 2016
I have left it to grow uninterrupted since Aug 2016 with plans to start working on the canopy in Spring 17 (September). I have many potential branches that I can wire into position to create a canopy.
With a monster energy can for size reference (6.3 inch tall Can)
I would love to hear thoughts and suggestions on this tree. Possible literati? Yes, No?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Any nice canopy up there will look good on this trunk IMO.
It'll probly fall into that grey deciduous literate area, which we must begin to define.
Sorce
Rusty Davis
Shohin
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
Thanks for the feedback.
Definitely needs a new pot.
When working on the canopy, would you bring it down? Something like this?
Or would you leave it at the top?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I'd be for in betweenish.
Just don't hide that first branch, it should have a big impact. A character branch of sorts.
I'd like to see it remain between the hinge and that first branch.
1940? Just don't kill it!
Sorce
Just don't hide that first branch, it should have a big impact. A character branch of sorts.
I'd like to see it remain between the hinge and that first branch.
1940? Just don't kill it!
Sorce
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Use your imagination on it. The literati is after all an imaginary form that is outside the realm of realism in theory. However you don't want to make the tree look like a conifer too much. As far as whether the tree is designed top up or down does not make a good deal of difference both are doable but you have to decide and go with what the art is saying to you. When children start making drawings they tend to make stick figures because they understand the basic elements of the image of a person. As we age and if you continue to make images we start putting some meat on those images. Now; as we advance into this discussion we are once again face with the magic of the stick figure. The Literati style is an exercise in minimalism.
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
My wife will kill me if I kill it. She almost had a heart attack when I cut off one the branches to convert it to a literati.
The estimate age was from 1940. When I cut off one of the branches and counted the rings and without a magnifying glass I counted over 40.
Inbetweenish can work too.
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
Thanks Vance
I understand what you are saying on this. Ultimately it is an olive and has to try and keep some of that appeal.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You are absolutely correct you have to be able to see the image you want for the tree.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
This is key for me....
I think one of the hardest thing to tune a pair of FVG's to is serious ramification...
Since it happens so far down the road...
But I am big on having faith that once you have that ramification, nice, tapered ramification, you can make any tree realistic.
Especially one with a trunk telling that tale.
Sorce
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
Can I have an AMEN
I need to start my wiring soon as I do not want the branches to harden off making it difficult. I cannot prune now but at least I can start to set positions.
Then it is working on the ramification for the next few years.
Dorian Fourie
Chumono
Which brings me to my other "Literati" a celtis sinensis. I got this from a guy who was getting rid of his stock in 2015. He said he had been fooling around with this.
I liked the idea and because I had taken quite a few trees from him, he threw this one is for free.
I currently have it in a colander on the ground just growing away. When I re-potted it, I changed the angle so that it was slightly more upright.
I have done a basic wiring to start the structure of the canopy. We had a massive hail storm and it shredded the tree hence the reason it looks so bare.
1.
2.
3.
4.
My feeling is that pic 1 is the right front and that I will need to make sure the cascading canopy moves forward. My worry is the arch at the top that looks too rounded but I believe with some raffia and maybe some thick wire, I can work on making the bend more sharp and non uniform
I am using one of Walter Pall's Literatis as inspiration and something to try and achieve.
Thoughts?
I liked the idea and because I had taken quite a few trees from him, he threw this one is for free.
I currently have it in a colander on the ground just growing away. When I re-potted it, I changed the angle so that it was slightly more upright.
I have done a basic wiring to start the structure of the canopy. We had a massive hail storm and it shredded the tree hence the reason it looks so bare.
1.
2.
3.
4.
My feeling is that pic 1 is the right front and that I will need to make sure the cascading canopy moves forward. My worry is the arch at the top that looks too rounded but I believe with some raffia and maybe some thick wire, I can work on making the bend more sharp and non uniform
I am using one of Walter Pall's Literatis as inspiration and something to try and achieve.
Thoughts?
Rusty Davis
Shohin
I agree on the bend it doesn't feel right in the first picture. I kinda like 4 myself
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
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