Species Study - Acer Saccharum/Acer Saccharinum

[Frozentreehugger]

I think you have to grow large internode/leaf acers in pots from early on to properly get the reduction required to be worthwhile specimens. My silver maples grow large leafs but the first leaf pair is usually small. You need to create ramification first early on so that you create enough budding points to distribute high energy trees' vigor after pinching and pruning. Use sacrificial branches as energy drains from other parts of tbe tree. Leaf cut and reduce photosynthetic material... Ryan Neil's theory of "gas pedals" if you will.

Great advice post some pics of your trees please .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Interesting but thats bloody dangerous so near the sidewalk and road! The owner would be liable if it falls on a passing car!

In Canada we have sone bizarre laws on liability like that . If it can be proved you were aware the tree was dangerous . Or in need of trimming to make it less dangerous . Then you can be held accountable . If you were not aware you can not be . Hence we have unscrupulous arborists . That knock on your door and offer to inspect your trees for free . Of course everything they inspect needs work . If you say no to the inspection you are not aware . Then of course there is middle ground . The electrical power company ( government run ) will trim and or cut down any tree they deem . Dangerous to the power lines for free . I have a situation my silver in front yard . Without my consent was inspected and deemed unsafe by a arborist . ( pointed out there is a hollow where the tree forks . ) it’s about 80 years old 2 feet from the sidewalk . It was also trimmed by the power company . 2 summers ago . They told me the remainder of the tree was safe . I kept there report . And asked the free inspecting arborist . To stay off my property without my permission . Or I would charge him with trespassing as I ripped up his free estimate to remove the tree

 

[Kievnstavick]

Allow me to join in the study group.

Here is my silver maple from seed (wild grown in my garden) over the course of 4 years. My plan is to make it into a raft.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Allow me to join in the study group.

Here is my silver maple from seed (wild grown in my garden) over the course of 4 years. My plan is to make it into a raft.

Interesting idea have you considered aggressively bending it . Thinking then the raft on the ground will have some movement to it . Instead of a straight trunk on the ground . Unless that is your intention

 

[Kievnstavick]

Interesting idea have you considered aggressively bending it . Thinking then the raft on the ground will have some movement to it . Instead of a straight trunk on the ground . Unless that is your intention

You can't really see in the pictures, but I did wire the trunk to what I thought a branch would look like. There is some movement applied after the second branch.

 

[Cajunrider]

I have a bunch of what I think are silver maples that are now about 8" tall. They are densely packed together. I am thinking about putting together a forest. Should I leave them packed together until spring next year to put the forest together or do it right now?

Maple seeds still on tree

I found a maple tree with tons of seeds still on the tree. They have been through our winter. Do I still need to stratify the seeds?

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Kievnstavick]

Technically, it would be a poor time to mess with the roots being that you are probably entered summer by now (Up here we are just leaving spring)

With how many you have, it might be best to thin them out a little bit. More or less selectively uproot some and transplant/repot the seedlings.

Best case, they all survive. Worst case, you at least thinned out the density.

If some die, oh well. I think giving the seedlings some more room to breathe and grow would be more beneficial. Not to mention making it easier to separate the tangled roots later on.

I guess the biggest deciding factor would be on how many trees you envision in your forest.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Spring would be best.

In this situation I’d keep the group growing together until at least next spring, possibly longer.

When trees get in crowded conditions, some will dominate and grow taller, others will get naturally dwarfed.

Thus waiting will create a selection of sizes so the forest will be more realistic.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[ERClover]

Thrilled to find this thread and see the interest others have in NA natives. I have a Silver (or at least what an app identified as such) that willed its way into the world from seed in a bucket in my back yard. I knew it had to be given a chance. Here it is in July of last year (it’s first) and now nearly a year on. I introduced a nice trunk bend over the winter and just took the wire off for a second time and it seems to have set fairly well. The tree has grown like a weed in spite of some aphid issues which I’ve addressed and some other leaf crisping and yellowing out of a more nebulous cause. I am in my second year of this so still coming along with my horticulture.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I have a bunch of what I think are silver maples that are now about 8" tall. They are densely packed together. I am thinking about putting together a forest. Should I leave them packed together until spring next year to put the forest together or do it right now?

Maple seeds still on tree

I found a maple tree with tons of seeds still on the tree. They have been through our winter. Do I still need to stratify the seeds?

www.bonsainut.com

In theory you should wait till spring . But these are incredible tough aggressive growing trees as has been pointed out it’s early summer in there native range . Many naturally growing seedlings are just starting to really grow . In the heat were you are . They might struggle a bit . But I think I would try with some if I was you . Save some for next spring . These are water loving trees . Originally native around water . I I have a seedling I placed in a pail of water early spring it’s happily growing in the shade . These are not understory trees like. JM . They grow very aggressively in full sun at least up north . As long as they have water . When one in a confined pot . Gets dry and wilts you can practically watch it perk up as you water it , If you try the forest now . I would keep it in the shade use a very water retention mix and keep it wet in your heat . Give it more light as it responds . But keep it wet until it roots develop . It can wilt easy . But like I said they recover fast hope this helps

 

[Frozentreehugger]

In theory you should wait till spring . But these are incredible tough aggressive growing trees as has been pointed out it’s early summer in there native range . Many naturally growing seedlings are just starting to really grow . In the heat were you are . They might struggle a bit . But I think I would try with some if I was you . Save some for next spring . These are water loving trees . Originally native around water . I I have a seedling I placed in a pail of water early spring it’s happily growing in the shade . These are not understory trees like. JM . They grow very aggressively in full sun at least up north . As long as they have water . When one in a confined pot . Gets dry and wilts you can practically watch it perk up as you water it , If you try the forest now . I would keep it in the shade use a very water retention mix and keep it wet in your heat . Give it more light as it responds . But keep it wet until it roots develop . It can wilt easy . But like I said they recover fast hope this helps

If you are concerned about losing the trees . And want to grow more . There are a lot of restrictions on international borders for live trees . But seeds are easy . In the spring I can mail
You seeds literally by the pound . There are a lot planted in my town . You can collect them with a shovel on the street

 

[TCEvan]

Found this cutie with nice sized leaves this year. I first found it in May I think, and the leaves have stayed approximately the same size since then.

Going to grab it either this fall or next spring and see what I can do with it.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Found this cutie with nice sized leaves this year. I first found it in May I think, and the leaves have stayed approximately the same size since then.

Going to grab it either this fall or next spring and see what I can do with it.

View attachment 499973

Yes yes!

That's how you hunt NA maple genetics!

 

[MMJNICE]

So this was a sugar maple that a murdered this past winter. I was getting short internodes and leaves reduced to about 1” but unfortunately I had one of those “impatient idiot” moments. I had just acquired the Sara Rayner pot it is shown in and had this romantic idea of American tree in an American pot and repotted out of season. The tree never recovered. Anyway… I think shorter internodes are attainable on the species but besides the fatal repot I am not knowledgeable on what I was doing wrong or right. No worries though, there are more in the pipelineView attachment 437359

Not bad for a sugar Maple... the internodes that is.. and the tree is cool as well, dam shame. I lost the only sugar maple I ever tried to grow,,,I Collected at the wrong time.. they must be more Finnicky then silver maples and red silver mixed..

 

[rockm]

It is chancy to assume just because a tree has small leaves in the ground pre-collection, that it will translate directly to small leaves in a container. Sometimes it is the location, not the tree that is forcing small leaves. Location can have bad soil (too acidic, too basic, deep shadow, constant grazing by deer, etc.) Put that same small leafed specimen in a container with ample resources and it will likely revert back to large leaves.

This is not always the case, but more often than not, it is.

Good luck. I hope it is a genetic variant.

 

[HorseloverFat]

It is chancy to assume just because a tree has small leaves in the ground pre-collection, that it will translate directly to small leaves in a container. Sometimes it is the location, not the tree that is forcing small leaves. Location can have bad soil (too acidic, too basic, deep shadow, constant grazing by deer, etc.) Put that same small leafed specimen in a container with ample resources and it will likely revert back to large leaves.

This is not always the case, but more often than not, it is.

Good luck. I hope it is a genetic variant.

Agreed.. it is tough to ACTUALLY gauge "trueness of RNA" when collecting...

That's why gene selection work is best left to "lings"

 

[Bowhuntmuledeer]

I’ll add mine here, (silver maple) and update as it progresses! I dug it up last October, I don’t have any pictures, but it was basically just a stick. let it grow till mid summer before giving it some shape. Before:
After:



A lot of the appeal of this thing for me, is the availability of practice material. So I saved a handful of seedlings this year to practice some grafting. I put one in kinda late this summer, but it appears to have taken. Maybe find out for sure next spring. Before and after on that:



Some of the small saved trees I’ll use to thread graft and root graft next spring and see what happens! Until then he’s put away for winter.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I’ll add mine here, (silver maple) and update as it progresses! I dug it up last October, I don’t have any pictures, but it was basically just a stick. let it grow till mid summer before giving it some shape. Before:View attachment 515612
After:

View attachment 515613

A lot of the appeal of this thing for me, is the availability of practice material. So I saved a handful of seedlings this year to practice some grafting. I put one in kinda late this summer, but it appears to have taken. Maybe find out for sure next spring. Before and after on that:
View attachment 515614
View attachment 515615

Some of the small saved trees I’ll use to thread graft and root graft next spring and see what happens! Until then he’s put away for winter.
View attachment 515616

Welcome to the thread . Like you I’m enjoying my silvers . I’ve grown to like there foliage in summer . Nice colour and the silver underside adds interest . Try truly love water and there rapid growth and vigor make them adaptable

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I’ll add mine here, (silver maple) and update as it progresses! I dug it up last October, I don’t have any pictures, but it was basically just a stick. let it grow till mid summer before giving it some shape. Before:View attachment 515612
After:

View attachment 515613

A lot of the appeal of this thing for me, is the availability of practice material. So I saved a handful of seedlings this year to practice some grafting. I put one in kinda late this summer, but it appears to have taken. Maybe find out for sure next spring. Before and after on that:
View attachment 515614
View attachment 515615

Some of the small saved trees I’ll use to thread graft and root graft next spring and see what happens! Until then he’s put away for winter.
View attachment 515616

I’m very interested in your grafting experiment . As I have some young trees that display red colour in fall . And also thinking about trying to graft JM to silver trunk with intentions of more robust cold hardiness

 

[MHBonsai]

Joining the study. The tree on the left crowds out the other…and looks like some good taper.




Natural leaf size.






Sugar maple for sure. Barely fit in the 24” pot.



The plan is to go really big with a graceful pasture tree shape. Like 48”+. Assuming it lives! I thought it was a ruburum at first but the leaves are unmistakable sugar. I’ll keep you all posted if I learn much with it. I’m keeping it garaged with some bottom heat to hopefully help it recover. I was brutal on the roots. Make it or break it.