Species Study - Acer Saccharum/Acer Saccharinum

Joining the study. The tree on the left crowds out the other…and looks like some good taper.


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Natural leaf size.

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Sugar maple for sure. Barely fit in the 24” pot.

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The plan is to go really big with a graceful pasture tree shape. Like 48”+. Assuming it lives! I thought it was a ruburum at first but the leaves are unmistakable sugar. I’ll keep you all posted if I learn much with it. I’m keeping it garaged with some bottom heat to hopefully help it recover. I was brutal on the roots. Make it or break it.
Nice good luck . I find the leaf size interesting . Maybe must be close to the heat limit of the tree there . Definitely sugar . What’s it potted in for soil . I’m Jealous. Everything still froze here . But has been warm for winter here . News says maple sap for syrup is starting to flow
 
I have about two dozens of 8-10" tall seedlings from last year. Time now is to either ditch them or grow a forest. I am kinda waffling. I am still trying to reduce my tree inventory.
 
I have about two dozens of 8-10" tall seedlings from last year. Time now is to either ditch them or grow a forest. I am kinda waffling. I am still trying to reduce my tree inventory.

Maples are so easy to come by, I don't see much point in bringing a bunch of seedlings on a move. Just keep all the seedlings you'll pull from your garden after you move north. If you don't happen to have a maple in your yard, offer to weed the maples out of your neighbor's garden. You'll be drowning in them before you know it. Planted in the ground, you'll get a trunk thicker than a beer can in just a few years.
 
Maples are so easy to come by, I don't see much point in bringing a bunch of seedlings on a move. Just keep all the seedlings you'll pull from your garden after you move north. If you don't happen to have a maple in your yard, offer to weed the maples out of your neighbor's garden. You'll be drowning in them before you know it. Planted in the ground, you'll get a trunk thicker than a beer can in just a few years.
Ok they will be ditched! I already dug up 2 with trunk bigger than a beer can.
 
Ok they will be ditched! I already dug up 2 with trunk bigger than a beer can.
Sugar is a climax forest tree in the north . Auger maple forest is covered in seedlings . Red maple is normally more scattered in nature. But is heavily planted as a street tree . Seeds east to get . And seedlings . Silver , same I can use a snow shovel to collect silver . On the street in my town , of the three sugar is the hardest to collect and survive . There finicky in large size . ( I currently don’t have a large in but have in the past ) you should post your maple here. The idea is a progression thread and share info
 
Here is slightly update pics of my 2 silvers . At last year repot moving into the bus tubs . Both were collected 1 year before and just allowed to grow. They were roadside trees from a rock cut where they were cut back by the power company . One had potential the other I’m not sure what to do with it
 

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I should try my hand at a few sugars.

Not really trying to rehash the first couple pages when choosing a tree to put the effort into to bonsai, one should think about the "bonsai traits" of the tree.

For example
Japanese maple, Acer palmatum (JM)
leaves that reduce well, especially with ramification and or a early summer defoliation
great foliage color, spring colors are vivid, autumn colors are outstanding for most seedling grown plants and especially so for select cultivars. Deciduous bonsai as an art was developed in part to showcase this species.
- ramification and short internodes - with JM very short nodes are possible. Fine branching is possible with time.
- Bark - generally smooth, this is a minor flaw, does not form fissured bark to add to the illusion of age. Except cultivars 'Arakawa' and 'Ibo can' and 'Ibo Nishiki' which have various degrees of warty to corky to fissured bark with age.
- hardiness - biggest fault with JM is winter hardiness. In the ground reliably hardy only through zone 6b, maybe 6a. Only a few clones are reliably hardy in zone 5a. Likely one reason 'Bloodgood' is everywhere is that it will survive a zone 5a winter in the ground. In a bonsai pot JM must be protected. They will not survive just set on the ground. This is their biggest weakness as bonsai, they need winter shelter. They are only good for the lower 35 states. Not good for northern tier growers unless they have heated winter storage.

So Japanese maple has strengths in leaf size, and color twice a year. Ramification is usually good, overall excellent bonsai material for zone 6b and warmer. Poor choice for bonsai in cold zone 5 and colder climates unless you have heated winter storage.

Silver maple - Acer saccharinum - Leaf color - green, and in autumn for a few hours yellow, then very quickly turns brown. Leaf size starts out large. Does reduce some, leaf petioles tend to remain out of proportion long, though they do reduce some too. Here 100% defoliation middle June or early July might be helpful.
- vigor of silver maple makes it tempting to work with. Very vigorous trees, will tolerate all manner of abuse.
- I have never been able to get short internodes in my few years of dabbling a couple decades ago. (pre digital photo era)
- bark is likely to develop nicely with time, a plated bark, not overly thick but definitely better in creating illusion of age than typical seedling JM

In my opinion, without the benefit of a persistent leaf color other than a few minutes of yellow in autumn, this species is not worth the time given that JM and Sugar Maple have MUCH better spring and autumn colors.

Now if you already have a Silver Maple in a pot or a grow box, go ahead and keep on working it, I am curious if someone can prove my conjecture wrong. Really, I would love to be proven wrong, but I don't have the energy to work with a tree without good fall color.

Sugar Maple - Acer saccharum - Has absolutely gorgeous autumn colors. Similar grow habit faults as the Silver Maple, but the benefit of beautiful autumn colors. Well worth the effort to "figure out". Go BIG or go abstract and really small. And definitely try defoliating a well established tree in late June or July to see how that helps with leaf reduction. It can become a "standard technique" for preparing for autumn shows. I had a JM that I would defoliate 100% 2 or 3 years out of 5 years. Then I would give it a break Never defoliated more than 2 summers in a row. But if the tree stays vigorous, maybe yearly defoliation would work well. Defoliation usually had to be 100% or else energy did not stay balanced through the JM. the area not defoliated would get coarse. Keep this in mind if you try defoliating on Sugar Maple. I have not tried defoliation on a sugar maple, so let the forum know how it works. Defoliation is a JM technique.

A western North American maple that has had some success as bonsai is Acer circinatum, the Vine Maple, it has been used by a number of the western USA bonsai artists like Michael Hagedorn and Ryan Neil. It is in the same subgenus as Acer palmatum, shares many traits with the JM. It does have larger leaves, it has good spring color and fabulous autumn colors. In many ways will look like a "full moon" JM, but it is native. Unfortunately being from middle and lower elevations of the Pacific temperate rain forests it is not any more winter hardy than a JM. Definitely a zone 6b and warmer when in a pot maple.

Acer ginnala also known as Acer tartaricum sub. ginnala - The Amur Maple. In many ways this one looks like a trident maple, except it is VERY COLD HARDY. In the ground it is hardy possibly into USDA Zone 2. This is a just set the pot on the ground for the winter maple. Leaves are not too big, Small, pretty close in size to that of a trident maple. Leaf colors are green in spring and summer, and a pretty yellow with touches of orange or red in autumn. Some seedlings tend to be very red in autumn. Internodes reduce well. This is an IDEAL maple for northern growers. If you have cold winters, try this maple .

If you have not got one, I highly recommend giving an Amur maple a try, they ARE worth the time.
 
I should try my hand at a few sugars.

Not really trying to rehash the first couple pages when choosing a tree to put the effort into to bonsai, one should think about the "bonsai traits" of the tree.

For example
Japanese maple, Acer palmatum (JM)
leaves that reduce well, especially with ramification and or a early summer defoliation
great foliage color, spring colors are vivid, autumn colors are outstanding for most seedling grown plants and especially so for select cultivars. Deciduous bonsai as an art was developed in part to showcase this species.
- ramification and short internodes - with JM very short nodes are possible. Fine branching is possible with time.
- Bark - generally smooth, this is a minor flaw, does not form fissured bark to add to the illusion of age. Except cultivars 'Arakawa' and 'Ibo can' and 'Ibo Nishiki' which have various degrees of warty to corky to fissured bark with age.
- hardiness - biggest fault with JM is winter hardiness. In the ground reliably hardy only through zone 6b, maybe 6a. Only a few clones are reliably hardy in zone 5a. Likely one reason 'Bloodgood' is everywhere is that it will survive a zone 5a winter in the ground. In a bonsai pot JM must be protected. They will not survive just set on the ground. This is their biggest weakness as bonsai, they need winter shelter. They are only good for the lower 35 states. Not good for northern tier growers unless they have heated winter storage.

So Japanese maple has strengths in leaf size, and color twice a year. Ramification is usually good, overall excellent bonsai material for zone 6b and warmer. Poor choice for bonsai in cold zone 5 and colder climates unless you have heated winter storage.

Silver maple - Acer saccharinum - Leaf color - green, and in autumn for a few hours yellow, then very quickly turns brown. Leaf size starts out large. Does reduce some, leaf petioles tend to remain out of proportion long, though they do reduce some too. Here 100% defoliation middle June or early July might be helpful.
- vigor of silver maple makes it tempting to work with. Very vigorous trees, will tolerate all manner of abuse.
- I have never been able to get short internodes in my few years of dabbling a couple decades ago. (pre digital photo era)
- bark is likely to develop nicely with time, a plated bark, not overly thick but definitely better in creating illusion of age than typical seedling JM

In my opinion, without the benefit of a persistent leaf color other than a few minutes of yellow in autumn, this species is not worth the time given that JM and Sugar Maple have MUCH better spring and autumn colors.

Now if you already have a Silver Maple in a pot or a grow box, go ahead and keep on working it, I am curious if someone can prove my conjecture wrong. Really, I would love to be proven wrong, but I don't have the energy to work with a tree without good fall color.

Sugar Maple - Acer saccharum - Has absolutely gorgeous autumn colors. Similar grow habit faults as the Silver Maple, but the benefit of beautiful autumn colors. Well worth the effort to "figure out". Go BIG or go abstract and really small. And definitely try defoliating a well established tree in late June or July to see how that helps with leaf reduction. It can become a "standard technique" for preparing for autumn shows. I had a JM that I would defoliate 100% 2 or 3 years out of 5 years. Then I would give it a break Never defoliated more than 2 summers in a row. But if the tree stays vigorous, maybe yearly defoliation would work well. Defoliation usually had to be 100% or else energy did not stay balanced through the JM. the area not defoliated would get coarse. Keep this in mind if you try defoliating on Sugar Maple. I have not tried defoliation on a sugar maple, so let the forum know how it works. Defoliation is a JM technique.

A western North American maple that has had some success as bonsai is Acer circinatum, the Vine Maple, it has been used by a number of the western USA bonsai artists like Michael Hagedorn and Ryan Neil. It is in the same subgenus as Acer palmatum, shares many traits with the JM. It does have larger leaves, it has good spring color and fabulous autumn colors. In many ways will look like a "full moon" JM, but it is native. Unfortunately being from middle and lower elevations of the Pacific temperate rain forests it is not any more winter hardy than a JM. Definitely a zone 6b and warmer when in a pot maple.

Acer ginnala also known as Acer tartaricum sub. ginnala - The Amur Maple. In many ways this one looks like a trident maple, except it is VERY COLD HARDY. In the ground it is hardy possibly into USDA Zone 2. This is a just set the pot on the ground for the winter maple. Leaves are not too big, Small, pretty close in size to that of a trident maple. Leaf colors are green in spring and summer, and a pretty yellow with touches of orange or red in autumn. Some seedlings tend to be very red in autumn. Internodes reduce well. This is an IDEAL maple for northern growers. If you have cold winters, try this maple .

If you have not got one, I highly recommend giving an Amur maple a try, they ARE worth the time.
As always great to hear from your expertise Leo . And yes I’m impressed with my Amur. Did not have one my first time . Cultivar is flame . Which is more a shrub or smaller tree version but they have responded vigorously . In the 2 years I have had them .
 
I should try my hand at a few sugars.

Not really trying to rehash the first couple pages when choosing a tree to put the effort into to bonsai, one should think about the "bonsai traits" of the tree.

For example
Japanese maple, Acer palmatum (JM)
leaves that reduce well, especially with ramification and or a early summer defoliation
great foliage color, spring colors are vivid, autumn colors are outstanding for most seedling grown plants and especially so for select cultivars. Deciduous bonsai as an art was developed in part to showcase this species.
- ramification and short internodes - with JM very short nodes are possible. Fine branching is possible with time.
- Bark - generally smooth, this is a minor flaw, does not form fissured bark to add to the illusion of age. Except cultivars 'Arakawa' and 'Ibo can' and 'Ibo Nishiki' which have various degrees of warty to corky to fissured bark with age.
- hardiness - biggest fault with JM is winter hardiness. In the ground reliably hardy only through zone 6b, maybe 6a. Only a few clones are reliably hardy in zone 5a. Likely one reason 'Bloodgood' is everywhere is that it will survive a zone 5a winter in the ground. In a bonsai pot JM must be protected. They will not survive just set on the ground. This is their biggest weakness as bonsai, they need winter shelter. They are only good for the lower 35 states. Not good for northern tier growers unless they have heated winter storage.

So Japanese maple has strengths in leaf size, and color twice a year. Ramification is usually good, overall excellent bonsai material for zone 6b and warmer. Poor choice for bonsai in cold zone 5 and colder climates unless you have heated winter storage.

Silver maple - Acer saccharinum - Leaf color - green, and in autumn for a few hours yellow, then very quickly turns brown. Leaf size starts out large. Does reduce some, leaf petioles tend to remain out of proportion long, though they do reduce some too. Here 100% defoliation middle June or early July might be helpful.
- vigor of silver maple makes it tempting to work with. Very vigorous trees, will tolerate all manner of abuse.
- I have never been able to get short internodes in my few years of dabbling a couple decades ago. (pre digital photo era)
- bark is likely to develop nicely with time, a plated bark, not overly thick but definitely better in creating illusion of age than typical seedling JM

In my opinion, without the benefit of a persistent leaf color other than a few minutes of yellow in autumn, this species is not worth the time given that JM and Sugar Maple have MUCH better spring and autumn colors.

Now if you already have a Silver Maple in a pot or a grow box, go ahead and keep on working it, I am curious if someone can prove my conjecture wrong. Really, I would love to be proven wrong, but I don't have the energy to work with a tree without good fall color.

Sugar Maple - Acer saccharum - Has absolutely gorgeous autumn colors. Similar grow habit faults as the Silver Maple, but the benefit of beautiful autumn colors. Well worth the effort to "figure out". Go BIG or go abstract and really small. And definitely try defoliating a well established tree in late June or July to see how that helps with leaf reduction. It can become a "standard technique" for preparing for autumn shows. I had a JM that I would defoliate 100% 2 or 3 years out of 5 years. Then I would give it a break Never defoliated more than 2 summers in a row. But if the tree stays vigorous, maybe yearly defoliation would work well. Defoliation usually had to be 100% or else energy did not stay balanced through the JM. the area not defoliated would get coarse. Keep this in mind if you try defoliating on Sugar Maple. I have not tried defoliation on a sugar maple, so let the forum know how it works. Defoliation is a JM technique.

A western North American maple that has had some success as bonsai is Acer circinatum, the Vine Maple, it has been used by a number of the western USA bonsai artists like Michael Hagedorn and Ryan Neil. It is in the same subgenus as Acer palmatum, shares many traits with the JM. It does have larger leaves, it has good spring color and fabulous autumn colors. In many ways will look like a "full moon" JM, but it is native. Unfortunately being from middle and lower elevations of the Pacific temperate rain forests it is not any more winter hardy than a JM. Definitely a zone 6b and warmer when in a pot maple.

Acer ginnala also known as Acer tartaricum sub. ginnala - The Amur Maple. In many ways this one looks like a trident maple, except it is VERY COLD HARDY. In the ground it is hardy possibly into USDA Zone 2. This is a just set the pot on the ground for the winter maple. Leaves are not too big, Small, pretty close in size to that of a trident maple. Leaf colors are green in spring and summer, and a pretty yellow with touches of orange or red in autumn. Some seedlings tend to be very red in autumn. Internodes reduce well. This is an IDEAL maple for northern growers. If you have cold winters, try this maple .

If you have not got one, I highly recommend giving an Amur maple a try, they ARE worth the time.
Once I settle in PA, I will add Amur maples to my list of trees.
 
The point of this group is the growing of these species. ( I would have added red but there is already a study group ) the native maples to North America are not JM. And as far as I’m concerned comparing them to JM serves . No purpose . It’s all about learning these , and exploiting there good attributes . Silver is a weed . Soft not decay resistant wood . They lack fall colour for the majority. Sugar is the slowest growing of the 3 , but has the hardest most rot resistant wood ( highly prized hardwood ) in my experience the hardest to find good material in the wild . There a climax tree . They take over a forest slowly because . There mature tree . Deep shade . Wipes out a lot of other trees from starting . But there seeds will grow in shade . Patiently waiting for the chance at light . Hence difficult to find good material . But they should not be confused with understory trees . They love light . All they can get if there roots are . Healthy , they are slower responding and the most difficult of the 3 to collect and survive . I’m wondering about not babysitting them . With all the roots you can get and semi shade protection. Maybe we need to just chop the roots way back and chop the trunk and stick it in full sun , stuff like that is why we are here . Be warned that they don’t also all turn red in fall. They are yellow. Orange or red . In my experience . Each is what it is. They are the native that most reliable turns orange ir red . And at maturity they have the best rough bark . They are finicky because of there importance up here for maple syrup . And wood . They are monitored there is a decline in sugars going on that . Science is unsure of . Anyway the point is to share and learn . Myself I’m looking for the wild one that will make a large potted tree out of . If some don’t think that’s a bonsai , I’m not very concerned
 
The point of this group is the growing of these species. ( I would have added red but there is already a study group ) the native maples to North America are not JM. And as far as I’m concerned comparing them to JM serves . No purpose . It’s all about learning these , and exploiting there good attributes . Silver is a weed . Soft not decay resistant wood . They lack fall colour for the majority. Sugar is the slowest growing of the 3 , but has the hardest most rot resistant wood ( highly prized hardwood ) in my experience the hardest to find good material in the wild . There a climax tree . They take over a forest slowly because . There mature tree . Deep shade . Wipes out a lot of other trees from starting . But there seeds will grow in shade . Patiently waiting for the chance at light . Hence difficult to find good material . But they should not be confused with understory trees . They love light . All they can get if there roots are . Healthy , they are slower responding and the most difficult of the 3 to collect and survive . I’m wondering about not babysitting them . With all the roots you can get and semi shade protection. Maybe we need to just chop the roots way back and chop the trunk and stick it in full sun , stuff like that is why we are here . Be warned that they don’t also all turn red in fall. They are yellow. Orange or red . In my experience . Each is what it is. They are the native that most reliable turns orange ir red . And at maturity they have the best rough bark . They are finicky because of there importance up here for maple syrup . And wood . They are monitored there is a decline in sugars going on that . Science is unsure of . Anyway the point is to share and learn . Myself I’m looking for the wild one that will make a large potted tree out of . If some don’t think that’s a bonsai , I’m not very concerned
Weed is gooooood!
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Like everything else depends on goals . My self I think I would let everything grow . Low buds and high . Then attempt to air layer the top off and have 2 trees .
Waaah!
I only want one!
So I airlayer to get better roots and ditch the original tree?
 
Like everything else depends on goals . My self I think I would let everything grow . Low buds and high . Then attempt to air layer the top off and have 2 trees
Waaah!
I only want one!
So I airlayer to get better roots and ditch the original tree
Option B don’t chop it considering the larger leaves. Grow the buds around the top into a new apex. As a broom or something else , grow some of the lower buds into side branches. For a larger more elegant style , also should be faster to a design. Recently Ryan Neal
Stated especially with collected Dicid . Most North American and Europeans. In his opinion chop trees to low. Wanting taper . Instead of growing something more elegant . Which in the long run makes a better finished tree. Just food for thought
 
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