Zelkova Serrata... can i start seeds now and grow indoors to get head start for spring?

[tigerscott79]

Wanted to ask about would Zelkova Serrata do ok under growlights if start my seeds now to grow over winter or would they fail to thrive and best to start once they are outside sown. @cmeg1 is ok to tag would you have an idea? Also plan to buy one yours when you are ready to sell .

 

[Nybonsai12]

I’m not an expert by any means but have done this with a variety of species. I only ran into an issue once moving wisteria out too early and I think the switch to cooler temps and less daylight hours than what I was giving em messed em up a bit like they were dormant for a bit. No losses but they didn’t grow well that season. They were back to normal the following season,

 

[penumbra]

I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like starting seeds inside is more for the one sowing the seeds than it is for the plants. When it comes to temperate zoned plants, like the zelkova, I have not seen enough difference in the growth of those started inside over those started outside. Certainly the Japanese maples I have started outside soon outstripped those that were started inside, with none of the concerns of fungal and insect attacks, or a number of other concerns with growing these plants inside. Certainly there is almost no concern for weather shock events.
I have no problems with others doing this, but for me it is a waste of time and effort. And certainly there are those like cmeg1 who have it figured out. But this requires quite an outlay of funds to have a setup like this.
For me, I will use nature as much as I can to accomplish these tasks. This comes after about 5-6 years of starting my seeds inside.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I feel like starting seeds inside is more for the one sowing the seeds than it is for the plants.

Agree with this...only reason i've done it is for fun and to have something to do during the winter downtime. I don't think there was any major difference in the amount of growth put on.

 

[tigerscott79]

I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like starting seeds inside is more for the one sowing the seeds than it is for the plants. When it comes to temperate zoned plants, like the zelkova, I have not seen enough difference in the growth of those started inside over those started outside. Certainly the Japanese maples I have started outside soon outstripped those that were started inside, with none of the concerns of fungal and insect attacks, or a number of other concerns with growing these plants inside. Certainly there is almost no concern for weather shock events.
I have no problems with others doing this, but for me it is a waste of time and effort. And certainly there are those like cmeg1 who have it figured out. But this requires quite an outlay of funds to have a setup like this.
For me, I will use nature as much as I can to accomplish these tasks. This comes after about 5-6 years of starting my seeds inside.

No I totally agree and apreciate your imput , had feeling it might result in not optimal desired results unless had funds to overcome much of the drawbacks so wanted see what others knew or thought. It is indeed bit selfish because I'm very bored atm but want stuff to grow (even if not work on for couple years , at least being able to care for a few things during winter would keep me appeased a bit ) again more an I thing in end . Wasnt sure if they'd make enough progress to amount to part of growing season or if would be meh. Ill wait then. Wondering if any indoor species that can be outdoors summers in my zone5/6 but over winter inside I might be able grow. Have tons house plant tropicals but wanting more of a tree plant then tropical . Ik maybe not very clear ish or a blurry line . Not sure how describe fully . I did pick up a japaneese twisted pomegranate.

 

[tigerscott79]

Agree with this...only reason i've done it is for fun and to have something to do during the winter downtime. I don't think there was any major difference in the amount of growth put on.

Ty had feeling that might not be as ideal as dreamt it may and it is indeed cause I'm wanting to keep busy . Atm doing much on seed stratifications but nothing to grow other then my myriad of houseplants . None which I'd want to bonsai . Might make post and aee what others use to grow inside winter wise . Thanks for advice truly

 

[tigerscott79]

I’m not an expert by any means but have done this with a variety of species. I only ran into an issue once moving wisteria out too early and I think the switch to cooler temps and less daylight hours than what I was giving em messed em up a bit like they were dormant for a bit. No losses but they didn’t grow well that season. They were back to normal the following season,

Thank you . Had bit worry might be antsy and missing the real picture on this . Much apreciated

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@tigerscott79 - yes, if you have experience growing under lights, go for it. What @penumbra said is largely true, there is no particular advantage to starting seed early under lights if your grow light set up is less than ideal. @cmeg1 has a very sophisticated grow system. He can speak to the growth he gets, but from photos I get the impression, he is able to squeeze in nearly 2 growing seasons worth of growth in a single year.

At one time in the past I grew over 1000 orchids under lights. My grow system was tailored to the orchids, I found my light intensities were about 800 to 1200 foot candles of light, perfect for the genera of orchids I was growing, equivalent to medium or full shade outdoors. This level of light would be too low for strong growth in zelkova and or elm seedlings. When I started seed of "full sun" species indoors under lights, growth was always somewhat week.

But if you tailor your light set up to deliver the intensity of light tomatoes or marijuana would need, growing under lights can give very good results. Key problems with light set ups is insufficient intensity for sun loving plants. Also remember that air movement and humidity are important. If you have the intense light needed, a small fan positioned to make certain all seedlings have some gentle air movement is absolutely necessary to prevent leaf burning from the intense light. These problems can be solved, look to the threads by cmeg1 for an elegant set up that solved these problems.

If you are new to growing under lights, do look closely at the various under lights threads.

Where starting seed .under lights, or just growing more mature plants under lights, for bonsai has a real advantage is with tropical and sub-tropical species that can be kept growing year round, it is possible to get 2 or 3 growing seasons worth of growth in a single year. But the exact details of how to would be species dependent.

 

[tigerscott79]

@tigerscott79 - yes, if you have experience growing under lights, go for it. What @penumbra said is largely true, there is no particular advantage to starting seed early under lights if your grow light set up is less than ideal. @cmeg1 has a very sophisticated grow system. He can speak to the growth he gets, but from photos I get the impression, he is able to squeeze in nearly 2 growing seasons worth of growth in a single year.

At one time in the past I grew over 1000 orchids under lights. My grow system was tailored to the orchids, I found my light intensities were about 800 to 1200 foot candles of light, perfect for the genera of orchids I was growing, equivalent to medium or full shade outdoors. This level of light would be too low for strong growth in zelkova and or elm seedlings. When I started seed of "full sun" species indoors under lights, growth was always somewhat week.

But if you tailor your light set up to deliver the intensity of light tomatoes or marijuana would need, growing under lights can give very good results. Key problems with light set ups is insufficient intensity for sun loving plants. Also remember that air movement and humidity are important. If you have the intense light needed, a small fan positioned to make certain all seedlings have some gentle air movement is absolutely necessary to prevent leaf burning from the intense light. These problems can be solved, look to the threads by cmeg1 for an elegant set up that solved these problems.

If you are new to growing under lights, do look closely at the various under lights threads.

Where starting seed .under lights, or just growing more mature plants under lights, for bonsai has a real advantage is with tropical and sub-tropical species that can be kept growing year round, it is possible to get 2 or 3 growing seasons worth of growth in a single year. But the exact details of how to would be species dependent.

Yea with amount grow lights I have (3 , 9 ft 3 shelved metal racks in living room ans kitchen ) all have growlights and house humidity is around 68% to 75% at highest do to plants and reptiles I have. As for a few germination mats I have going and several house plants are water wick watered using 10x20 flats with a plastic rack on top cups and felt wool with the plants sitting on those to self wick water hence house humidity remains good as for ait movement I keep all my ceiling fans on med and one on high so air is good movement , always noticed lack of fungal or mold and even dampening off do to air movement plus plant growth in moving for versus stagnant indoors always noticed much stronger stems. Worst case might grow maybe 5 to 10 seeds and keep rest in cold stratification for spring.

 

[cmeg1]

Wanted to ask about would Zelkova Serrata do ok under growlights if start my seeds now to grow over winter or would they fail to thrive and best to start once they are outside sown. @cmeg1 is ok to tag would you have an idea? Also plan to buy one yours when you are ready to sell .

Yes…..it does help.Sprout the seed….straight #2 perlite ….rootpouch fabric pots or plastic…t5 lights…….a very light breeze from a fan…..40-60% RH………clean water….ph 5.5-6.5…….

And some t5 lights for starting then a led when they get bigger.

Will help them get a nice start….also homes have naturally elevated co2!!!!
Just make sure you pH your liquid nutrient.

 

[tigerscott79]

Yes…..it does help.Sprout the seed….straight #2 perlite ….rootpouch fabric pots or plastic…t5 lights…….a very light breeze from a fan…..40-60% RH………clean water….ph 5.5-6.5…….

And some t5 lights for starting then a led when they get bigger.

Will help them get a nice start….also homes have naturally elevated co2!!!!
Just make sure you pH your liquid nutrient.

Thank you for info and much apreciate it a lot

 

[W3rk]

Wanted to ask about would Zelkova Serrata do ok under growlights if start my seeds now to grow over winter or would they fail to thrive and best to start once they are outside sown. @cmeg1 is ok to tag would you have an idea? Also plan to buy one yours when you are ready to sell .

Yes, it's worth starting early inside. Last year I collected a ton of Chinese Elm seeds. I sowed them in 2-3 batches, with the first group starting inside and early. They received almost no special treatment except for protecting against damping off. I started them at least 1 month early sitting in a west/nw facing window. Because of the early start I saw significantly more growth than the batches that were started later outside.