That's a nice tree...but still not enough to really get excited over...
Yamadori hunt 2015
- Thread starter Giga
- Start date
Check out other collecting threads...they are always met with the same crap...its not just here or the same group of players either... This is the exact reason why I never post about collecting anymore...here or anywhere....even when done ethically the mud ends up flying...just not worth it... Post the trees but save the collecting experience for your personal archive and you will save yourself from threads like this....
I do think you folks are on RockM too heavy...his posts are always full of quality, well-reasoned, and experienced information. I have not always agreed with everything he says but I do respect his opinions.
Giga
Masterpiece
Each his own, I like them. Maybe I can change your mind over the years with this one lol.
I might do the same, though I do this for me and do like to share. Though maybe I'll just share to my club
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Way too heavy on RockM.
Especially since he stated he hates to nag. But righteousness won, so he did. The nagging feeling of not speaking up for what You believe in is way worse.!
Brian Van Diga!
Cliffhanger!
Facerockstopper!
Nice.!
From now on, if we type "not a sheep" in collection threads, it can indicate legality!
"Virgin records" Illegal.
Sorce
Especially since he stated he hates to nag. But righteousness won, so he did. The nagging feeling of not speaking up for what You believe in is way worse.!
Brian Van Diga!
Cliffhanger!
Facerockstopper!
Nice.!
From now on, if we type "not a sheep" in collection threads, it can indicate legality!
"Virgin records" Illegal.
Sorce
klosi
Shohin
Nice pictures. Also nice finds, congrats. Keep us updated.
As far as collecting yamadori of any species there will always be a big moral and ethical dilema. If bonsaist would have a day in a year, as like mothers day, fathers day, bonsaist day.... Then on that day, we the collectors of yamadori should go to the forrest and plant a few trees (seeds, cuttings, etc.).
As far as collecting yamadori of any species there will always be a big moral and ethical dilema. If bonsaist would have a day in a year, as like mothers day, fathers day, bonsaist day.... Then on that day, we the collectors of yamadori should go to the forrest and plant a few trees (seeds, cuttings, etc.).
pbethune
Mame
My apoligies Rockm, I meant no disrespect to you or anyone else that commented. I was having a bad day at work.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
No pics of the trees?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The reason I posted on this is because it is in parts of the country I am very familiar with. If you have noticed, posts on EASTERN collection, especially in the Appalachians, always get "where is this and how did you get a permit." People are extremely interested in that information since its not all that common.
If posts don't contain the I got a permit" stuff, some people assume it can be done without one. Collecting in the east is very different than the west as far as legalities, supply and locations go. Since there are more people and less space on the right coast, there is more pressure on a smaller resource. Those trees growing out of a hot slope in West Va. are far fewer in number than trees in similar conditions west of the Mississippi.
Also, there is a danger (and not from people on this site, necessarily) of these trees becoming monetized. Having been one of the locals out in the western wilds of Va., I know that if the word gets out that those ugly stunted trees are worth $$, they will disappear pretty quickly. That has happened with Ginseng and bears in the past. You only have to look at the history Channel's "Appalachian Outlaws" program to see how hot a commodity Ginseng has become-even though it has long been harvested. It has been poached to extinction in some areas of the Jefferson and Washington National Forests and other areas. The black bear population in some areas was decimated not long ago by poachers looking to sell bear parts (paws and more valuable gall bladders--$4,000 a piece) to Asian (China and Korea) markets.
I think similar potential exists for overexploitation of "bonsai trees" yanked out of the mountainsides in the Appalachians IF rules are thrown to the wind.
The situation here is much like seeing posted pics of someone shooting a deer. Simple pictures can convey a lot and leave a lot out. I asked for clarification on permissions because it is a very important part of collecting responsibly, even if the person posting the pics considers it "off topic."
If posts don't contain the I got a permit" stuff, some people assume it can be done without one. Collecting in the east is very different than the west as far as legalities, supply and locations go. Since there are more people and less space on the right coast, there is more pressure on a smaller resource. Those trees growing out of a hot slope in West Va. are far fewer in number than trees in similar conditions west of the Mississippi.
Also, there is a danger (and not from people on this site, necessarily) of these trees becoming monetized. Having been one of the locals out in the western wilds of Va., I know that if the word gets out that those ugly stunted trees are worth $$, they will disappear pretty quickly. That has happened with Ginseng and bears in the past. You only have to look at the history Channel's "Appalachian Outlaws" program to see how hot a commodity Ginseng has become-even though it has long been harvested. It has been poached to extinction in some areas of the Jefferson and Washington National Forests and other areas. The black bear population in some areas was decimated not long ago by poachers looking to sell bear parts (paws and more valuable gall bladders--$4,000 a piece) to Asian (China and Korea) markets.
I think similar potential exists for overexploitation of "bonsai trees" yanked out of the mountainsides in the Appalachians IF rules are thrown to the wind.
The situation here is much like seeing posted pics of someone shooting a deer. Simple pictures can convey a lot and leave a lot out. I asked for clarification on permissions because it is a very important part of collecting responsibly, even if the person posting the pics considers it "off topic."
Giga
Masterpiece
I actually do this from time to time, though I should do it more often I think.
I'll make separate post for each tree today
Next time I'll either just not post of put a disclaimer to avoid all the hub-bub.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It would be a shame not to post pics. Including a sentence or mention of some of the ins and outs of how you came to dig the trees is not only wise, but probably a big plus for readers considering collection. It can seem like an annoying thing, but believe me, people will get more out of a post with that information included upfront. Just do a search on collecting in the eastern states and virtually every one of them has at least three questions about permissions, permits and the procedural stuff.
Giga
Masterpiece
I'm hitting my self on the head as I didn't take many picture of actualy dig process as I was on rather steep cliffs and was concentrating on holding on and getting the tree.
All the tree's can be seen here
https://veritasbonsai.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/scrub-pines-and-a-hemlock/
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Nice trees. Fingers crossed for recovery.
Pic of a pretty nice Eastern Hemlock on this page:
http://www3.amherst.edu/~ccsp01/HemlockAdelgid.html
Here too
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATBonsai Winter 2010 11 page2.html
Some recovery info for e. hemlock here:
http://lakeshorebonsai.com/?tag=tsuga-Canadensis
FWIW, I haven't had much luck with Virginia pine, but mostly because here in the D.C. area they tend to throw looooong roots into the clay. Feeder roots can be as much as 25 feet from the trunk. That makes collecting them a pain and not worth the effort as trunks also tend to be kind of boring here too. Additionally, the soil they grow in is marginal and usually falls away at collection, automatically bare-rooting the tree (and crippling it or outright killing it).
Pic of a pretty nice Eastern Hemlock on this page:
http://www3.amherst.edu/~ccsp01/HemlockAdelgid.html
Here too
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATBonsai Winter 2010 11 page2.html
Some recovery info for e. hemlock here:
http://lakeshorebonsai.com/?tag=tsuga-Canadensis
FWIW, I haven't had much luck with Virginia pine, but mostly because here in the D.C. area they tend to throw looooong roots into the clay. Feeder roots can be as much as 25 feet from the trunk. That makes collecting them a pain and not worth the effort as trunks also tend to be kind of boring here too. Additionally, the soil they grow in is marginal and usually falls away at collection, automatically bare-rooting the tree (and crippling it or outright killing it).
pbethune
Mame
Very Nice, what soil composition are you using?
Giga
Masterpiece
cool thanks!, This isn't my first eastern hemlock, I have a few smaller ones I got a couple years back and have been making great strides with them. One is in it's first pot and will be lightly styled this fall. These pines are very much like that BUT they all have a plethora of fine roots right at the nebari. I have high hopes for them. The small broken one came out as a complete root ball, the old large one did 3/4 bare root itself but has a lot of feeder roots so we shall see, and the cascade one was growing in a rock with no soil so it was bare rooted the way it was growing but has the most feeder roots, of the lot.
the pines is just pumice and sifted soil conditioner with a splash of turface and charcoal-in various combos depending on how the tree was growing in the wild. The hemlock is growing in a sifted compost,soil conditioner, and sharp sand-drains well but stay's moist. I find this help the first year after collection and depending on how it does I can leave it in there next year or repot into something small-this one has such a huge nebari that I'm thinking a slab would work nice.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
I picked a couple young ones up from my brother's yard in Virginia over the past couple years- babies that probably would not have made it long where they sat...
I thought they were Spruce trees until a buddy identified them for me.. I actually got the first one as a hitch hiker on a larger pine I was collecting... They are some of the slowest growing trees I have ever worked with. The size of the trees I have will NEVER make convincing bonsai during my lifetime at this rate. I am going to have to put them together as a small group planting or something like that...
I thought they were Spruce trees until a buddy identified them for me.. I actually got the first one as a hitch hiker on a larger pine I was collecting... They are some of the slowest growing trees I have ever worked with. The size of the trees I have will NEVER make convincing bonsai during my lifetime at this rate. I am going to have to put them together as a small group planting or something like that...
Giga
Masterpiece
Grafting is a option and making a mame if there small. Hemlock heal like crazy, all the trunk chops from the smaller ones have heal over in les then a years time
Eric Group
Masterpiece
I think part of it may be the short winters/ hot weather we get around here... They just might not thrive in my environment.
Mugo Pines don't do well here- in landscapes or pots from what I have seen and been told.
Spruce and Cedar seem to struggle along and do not thrive.. I don't know of a Larch that I have ever seen alive this Far south.. Maybe Hemlocks just don't do well around here unless in the higher elevations, because mine seem to throw one small bud of bright green growth on each branch and then they pretty much extend their middle fingers in my general direction and sit quietly the rest of the year... Slowly turning the light green color of over- cooked collards.
I am hoping after a couple years adapting to my climate they might get happy, but it hasn't quite happened yet even for the first one I collected over 2 years ago!
