Winged elm Acquisition

[Hartinez]

I'd put money on this being cedar elm...

About to say the same thing. Did the seller offer a Latin name?

No Latin name offered. The seller lives in Arkansas. there are several branches forming the corky wings on them, though i did just read that sometimes cedar elms do something similar. Though ultimately It’s not a big deal, I wouldnot have any reason to think this guy wouldn’t know the difference. In your guys eyes what is giving you the impression this is a cedar elm? Neither grow native here and I wouldnt know any better. It does sound like the best way to truly know will just be time and how the branches and twigs develop.

 

[Colorado]

I like the drawing and the visual, but the movement in the apex may be wrong. Like maybe it conflicts with the primary branch a bit. I may be overthinking it as its a bit inconsequential now, but I’m wondering if maybe i need to wire that leader different than what i have captured in the drawing? I feel like with the primary branch being on the left side of the tree and the lean being in that direction that the apex should reflect that movement. @MACH5 @Colorado thoughts?

I think the current version looks great. The apex coming back to the right or at least staying more centered gives great balance, in my opinion.

The branch angles look great too! This one is going to be looking like the virtual in no time

 

[coachspinks]

No Latin name offered. The seller lives in Arkansas. there are several branches forming the corky wings on them, though i did just read that sometimes cedar elms do something similar. Though ultimately It’s not a big deal, I wouldnot have any reason to think this guy wouldn’t know the difference. In your guys eyes what is giving you the impression this is a cedar elm? Neither grow native here and I wouldnt know any better. It does sound like the best way to truly know will just be time and how the branches and twigs develop.

I have one of each. Later today I will take a look.

 

[rockm]

No Latin name offered. The seller lives in Arkansas. there are several branches forming the corky wings on them, though i did just read that sometimes cedar elms do something similar. Though ultimately It’s not a big deal, I wouldnot have any reason to think this guy wouldn’t know the difference. In your guys eyes what is giving you the impression this is a cedar elm? Neither grow native here and I wouldnt know any better. It does sound like the best way to truly know will just be time and how the branches and twigs develop.

Because I've been collecting cedar elm for going on 20 years in Texas. I've got two now. One collected off my parents place in east Texas, where these trees grow like weeds. The bark, twigs and leaves are pretty much what I see, along with the weak one-sided nebari...Cedar elm is native to southern Arkansas stretching into slivers of Northern Ark. Local names are used for species that people don't ID correctly--cedar elm IS VERY "winged" particularly new shoots. People unfamiliar with cedar elm typically jump to the conclusion that it's a "winged elm" because of the wings. Wings are not a definitive thing for any tree.

All this makes no real difference, other than cedar elm may be a bit less winter hardy than winged elm...but both grow like weeds and develop quickly. Cedar elm is capable of developing denser closer ramification with diligent attention.

 

[Hartinez]

Because I've been collecting cedar elm for going on 20 years in Texas. I've got two now. One collected off my parents place in east Texas, where these trees grow like weeds. The bark, twigs and leaves are pretty much what I see, along with the weak one-sided nebari...Cedar elm is native to southern Arkansas stretching into slivers of Northern Ark. Local names are used for species that people don't ID correctly--cedar elm IS VERY "winged" particularly new shoots. People unfamiliar with cedar elm typically jump to the conclusion that it's a "winged elm" because of the wings. Wings are not a definitive thing for any tree.

All this makes no real difference, other than cedar elm may be a bit less winter hardy than winged elm...but both grow like weeds and develop quickly. Cedar elm is capable of developing denser closer ramification with diligent attention.

The hardiness would have been my only real concern if it is a cedar elm, but in looking it up also, they both seem pretty tolerant. The selling point was the bark more than anything else and i assumed that it’ll probably respond to ground layering as well as any other elm would. Would you say so?

 

[rockm]

The hardiness would have been my only real concern if it is a cedar elm, but in looking it up also, they both seem pretty tolerant. The selling point was the bark more than anything else and i assumed that it’ll probably respond to ground layering as well as any other elm would. Would you say so?

yeah, but have you cleaned out the nebari/roots completely to see what's there? I completely bare-root my elms at collection to see what roots are available. Cedar elm (and many other trees) often have multi-level surface roots--particularly older trees. Worth getting rid of all the soil to see if there are options that are buried and could offer more options.

The bark is pretty typical for CEs.

 

[Hartinez]

yeah, but have you cleaned out the nebari/roots completely to see what's there? I completely bare-root my elms at collection to see what roots are available. Cedar elm (and many other trees) often have multi-level surface roots--particularly older trees. Worth getting rid of all the soil to see if there are options that are buried and could offer more options.

The bark is pretty typical for CEs.

I havnt yet. Only acquired it about a month ago. I will address the roots in spring For sure.

 

[rockm]

I havnt yet. Only acquired it about a month ago. I will address the roots in spring For sure.

I would hold off messing with the roots if this tree has been in the container for less than two years...

 

[Hartinez]

I would hold off messing with the roots if this tree has been in the container for less than two years...

Even with an elm? This one was collected in fall of 2020. So by the time I would be addressing the roots it would be spring 2022. Not quite 2 years but has had a full growing season under its belt. I figured an elm could handle that frequent a repot wether it was a collected tree or not. Issue is the pot broke and is being held together by the aluminum duct tape i had laying around my garage. Maybe I wont bare root the tree, but i feel i should get it out of its current vessel.

 

[rockm]

Even with an elm? This one was collected in fall of 2020. So by the time I would be addressing the roots it would be spring 2022. Not quite 2 years but has had a full growing season under its belt. I figured an elm could handle that frequent a repot wether it was a collected tree or not. Issue is the pot broke and is being held together by the aluminum duct tape i had laying around my garage. Maybe I wont bare root the tree, but i feel i should get it out of its current vessel.

Yeah, you had better get it into an undamaged container. I would go VERY easy on the roots at this point...You have some issues working against you for an aggressive repot--It's a new species for you. You don't yet know how it will grow in your area. It's not native. It's also been in a container for just over a year--which isn't a lot of time--even for an elm.

 

[Hartinez]

Yeah, you had better get it into an undamaged container. I would go VERY easy on the roots at this point...You have some issues working against you for an aggressive repot--It's a new species for you. You don't yet know how it will grow in your area. It's not native. It's also been in a container for just over a year--which isn't a lot of time--even for an elm.

Great advice. Thanks Rock.

 

[luvinthemountains]

growth habits

The one that I got from Keith last summer had the branches all emanating from one spot that somebody else alluded to. I corrected that and got backbudding around the chop site as well as very vigorous growth on the shoots that I kept. So much so that I will probably have to cut the new leader against just to get any movement into it. My tree seems to favor long sprouts without much side branching so far, but I am sure that ramification can be stimulated with pruning. It will be interesting to see yours develop.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

In your guys eyes what is giving you the impression this is a cedar elm?

Eastern Winged Elm and Cedar Elm have different bark. Young EWE branches are grey. Young CE branches are green. Additionally, the wings on CE are brownish, those on EWE are grey.

 

[coachspinks]

Eastern Winged Elm and Cedar Elm have different bark. Young EWE branches are grey. Young CE branches are green. Additionally, the wings on CE are brownish, those on EWE are grey.

I will try to get some pictures soon but it is supposed to rain a lot this week. I did get the chance to look at my two trees, the cedar elm and the winged elm, and the bark is very similar. My Winged Elm has wings on some of its branches and they are grey.

 

[Davidlpf]

The tree was in a bonsai seeker pot that broke during shipment unfortunately. It was packed well and I don’t blame the seller.

May be you cant fix it. Take a look:

Nice tree, congratulations!

Cheers.

 

[rockm]

Here are some pics of my two cedar elms. The smaller one was collected near Tyler Texas only four years ago. The larger was dug in 1992 near Austin. Pics are best I could do this time of year. Both trees are in winter storage. Note, however, the corking on the newer growth, as well as the color of twigs (brown). Bark is also like your tree...

 

[Hartinez]

Here are some pics of my two cedar elms. The smaller one was collected near Tyler Texas only four years ago. The larger was dug in 1992 near Austin. Pics are best I could do this time of year. Both trees are in winter storage. Note, however, the corking on the newer growth, as well as the color of twigs (brown). Bark is also like your tree...

I def see the similarities.

 

[Hartinez]

Leafing out. At repot, I left the roots ball intact, which was in great shape. I also ringed the base of the tree to ground layer it for a better nebari long term. As was mentioned an ugly one sided taproot was present.

 

[Hartinez]

 

[RKatzin]

That's a great tree! But dang it! I had a look because I just dug out a clutch of winged elm from a friend's yard and was looking for something on them. I can definitely see that the bark on mine is two to three times wingier than what I see on yours. Very rough and cobby.