Why you cannot keep bonsai trees indoors

[Gabler]

I'd imagine pests and disease become a much different challenge when attempting to grow indoors. The lack of a typical ecological community seems like a recipe for certain undesirables to have free reign. Treatment measures also seem to be a logistical burden in indoor spaces, especially ones shared with people or pets.

I speculate that a trees natural pest resistance lowers in relation to overall vigor, too, making it more susceptible to health issues.

It seems near certain that a tree will be in deficit of something it requires to maintain and build health indoors. I interpret that as it being weakened to some extent, and ironically more prone to pests, disease, and other stressors. The snowball gets big quickly.

I've definitely heard of others having problems with pests indoors, but I seldom see harmful insects on my tropicals when I bring them indoors for the winter. I generally wait until it's cold enough that insects aren't active before I bring my trees indoors. If the nighttime lows are above 40°F, my ficus and dwarf jade remain outdoors. As for fungus, it's pretty dry indoors in the winter. HV/AC systems are made to combat mold and mildew, so fungus doesn't really proliferate amongst my trees, even when the soil remains damp for a couple days after watering.

 

[nuttiest]

Maybe a little off topic, but on Nuttiest’s comment regarding Christmas gifts, it pays to purchase these gifts from a nursery in a similar climate as you. I had a few nice gifts struggle (and die) because they came from (reputable) bonsai shops in a warmer climate that just didn’t have the chance to acclimate to a NY winter. The tree were nice and otherwise healthy, but just couldn’t adjust fast enough.

I am wondering if you mean things that normally can be outside in your zone, like boxwood or juniper. something you normally wouldn't need to bring in. If I sell a boxwood to zone 7, should it be in the listing it needs to be indoors?
What about waiting until spring to sell those?

 

[Betula1]

I am wondering if you mean things that normally can be outside in your zone, like boxwood or juniper. something you normally wouldn't need to bring in. If I sell a boxwood to zone 7, should it be in the listing it needs to be indoors?
What about waiting until spring to sell those?

For what its worth, indoor growing under glass or polytunnels is used here in Britain by many commercial growers of hardy nursery stock- ie garden trees and shrubs and some bonsai, to start their young plants indoors in well ventilated glasshouses or poly tunnels without need for heat or lighting and grow them on till the spring when they are ready to harden them off before selling the following season, So indoor growing can be used to extend your growing season because the plants are in active growth for longer.
One of the biggest wholesale suppliers of bonsai acers and Elm imports thousands of S shaped shohin from Japan, prunes them back then grows them under glass all winter so they are looking good ready for sale to garden centre chains by the following early summer.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I am wondering if you mean things that normally can be outside in your zone, like boxwood or juniper. something you normally wouldn't need to bring in. If I sell a boxwood to zone 7, should it be in the listing it needs to be indoors?
What about waiting until spring to sell those?

A friend got me a really nice trident maple two years back. I am 100% confident in the seller, but they are down south where the climate is very different than New York. Tree never woke up and I think it’s a no brainer - the tree simply never got ready for a NY winter and died. Just my experience.

 

[Michael P]

For the purposes of this discussion, we should distinguish between growing "indoors" in a house or apartment and growing in a "greenhouse" or other enclosure that artificially controls light, humidity, air movement, etc. I overwinter my tropicals in our house at every available window without artificial light. Trust me, as soon as they come in the house they start to deteriorate. In my climate they come indoors in November and go back out in April. If I'm lucky and careful they make it to April without serious damage or death.

 

[DonielDoom]

For the purposes of this discussion, we should distinguish between growing "indoors" in a house or apartment and growing in a "greenhouse" or other enclosure that artificially controls light, humidity, air movement, etc. I overwinter my tropicals

Agreed. Thanks for this insight.

In my opinion, there's a large difference in intention for those who are trying to grow in their home full-time or as the primary method, versus, those who utilize their home for a temporary shelter to prevent a certain winter death.

Full time growing in a home is problematic and I personally don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. There's far too many other options out there that produce better results, IMO.

To clarify my previous comment - it was based on this train of thought. I shuffle my small share of tropicals inside and out seasonally. I do overwinter tropicals in my home. I have had success when it's for the "off season", and they're always happier the moment they go outside.

Your time and effort is meaningful! Make it easier on yourself and pal up with nature!

 

[GreenGrowTheRushes]

Whenever I start one of these threads, I am careful to avoid saying things like "impossible". Instead I try to say things like "99.9% of all people"

I know for a fact that you can keep shallow water tropical reef corals in aquariums indoors. These corals are photosynthetic and require spectral lighting intensities much higher than any bonsai tree. However they also require very specific, isolated setups that often require an investment in the thousands of dollars.

Commercial plant growing setups are available for growing vegetables and other produce indoors, some of which include motorized rails (to prevent shadowing) and very sophisticated timing and spectral intensity programs to trigger flowering and fruiting. However, once again they are expensive, and space-requiring. With the advent of LED lighting, you can get quite good full spectrum plant grow lights today that don't break the bank that don't have the features or performance of commercial setups, but are adequate for keeping some plants indoors. So it isn't uniformly "impossible". Just highly highly unlikely unless you know what you are doing, have the right plant, and have the right setup.

What I am trying to suggest is that bonsai are not houseplants, and that for people to think they can bring one home and put it in a window and they will be fine, they are in for a rude awakening. Perhaps it would be best to start with a list of requirements for all bonsai:

(1) Good soil (easy to provide), good fertilization (easy to provide)
(2) Good water (less easy to provide, depending on your water source)
(3) Full spectrum lighting (almost impossible to provide without supplementation)
(4) Air movement (easy to provide, however many people don't like fans constantly running in their homes)
(5) High humidity (most people feel uncomfortable in humidity levels that bonsai trees prefer)
(6) Seasonal change (very difficult, if not impossible to provide indoors)
(7) Pollination (very difficult to provide indoors)

Taking this list into consideration, you can rank order bonsai trees from "somewhat suitable for indoor cultivation" to "almost impossible for indoor cultivation". Sure you can grow a Japanese black pine indoors with enough supplemental lighting. Can you say the same for a Japanese white pine? For a Japanese maple? There are many quite advanced bonsai practitioners who know that even in the best gardens, you can only work with what Mother Nature gives you. Can you grow a bristlecone pine outdoors in SoCal? No - not cold enough. Can you, grow a ficus outdoors in Maine? No - too cold. So if we can't do certain things in nature, it stands to reason we can't do certain things indoors - without significant supplementation/artificial set-ups.

I happen to like deciduous hollies and princess persimmons. I also know both plants are sexually dioecious - that there are male and female individuals - and that only female plants fruit and without males (and pollination) you will typically not get fruit on your trees. Are you going to keep these trees indoors successfully - simulating the seasons as well as artificially triggering flowering and manually pollinating? It is possible. Is it practical? Is it the rule - or is it the exception? However I can guarantee you that at some bonsai show somewhere in this country, someone will walk in, see a beautiful persimmon bonsai, buy it, and try to keep it indoors.

We always like to tear into "the rules" on this site... but the rules are very important because so many people start in bonsai trying to work with the exceptions to rules - and don't understand why the rules exist. They fail... and then they quit... and bonsai gets the reputation as being "difficult" when in fact it is relatively simple as long as you provide what Mother Nature provides. Mother Nature doesn't generally hang out in a New York City condo.

I agree. When we moved to our present location, I attempted to overcome Mother Nature by trying to install plants that were barely deciduous to the area. They were pretty and I Wanted them There! It occurred to me that forcing Mother Nature's hand leads to frustration and maybe even possibly heartache. And suddenly, as if a lightbulb went off, I realized that if I work within the parameters that The Universe provides, native plants, I can still fulfill my desire to have a beautiful garden in time. So yeah, work within Nature's guidelines and be a happy gardener. Cheers.

 

[JackHammer]

I have all of my tropicals in my basement and they are doing quite well. I have been doing trunk chops and hard pruning all fall. I also brought in some maple, juniper, azalea, and apple cuttings last week to see if I can get them to root early for next growing season. The boxwoods will live like a houseplant just fine - you just have to water them so I don't see the point when you can leave them outside. My azaleas are outside and while they did ok last winter, I think I will bring them in around Christmas so they dont need to be in the negatives this winter.

If you can keep everything pretty warm, bright and humid, I think most tropicals or evergreens will do quite well. I won't bring my conifers in except maybe some juniper cuttings.

 

[rusticana]

Probably the biggest misunderstanding people have when starting out in bonsai - and the greatest mistake they make - is to think that they can keep bonsai trees indoors. With only a few exceptions, all bonsai trees must be kept outside, or they will die a quick and certain death. Even the short list of tropical trees that can be kept indoors would do better if they were kept outside. I wanted to create a thread for people to discuss this subject - and the horticultural reasons why this is true - so that we can avoid unnecessary tree deaths and the disappointment bonsai beginners feel when their first efforts end in failure.

Sadly, I have found that some retailers even sell their bonsai trees like they were houseplants - or label them as "indoor bonsai" to differentiate them from "outdoor bonsai". There is no such differentiation. They are all outdoor bonsai... though a tiny percentage may be kept alive indoors if the proper environment can be provided. This is certainly the exception and not the rule.

Worst yet is people who post on social media fake information like "I kept my bald cypress indoors and it did fine!". This thread is here to debunk that nonsense.

I will be editing this post as I have time - to create a lasting resource here on the site.

I'm going to make some enemies here. But many trees beside the fig can be kept indoors! I've been doing it for years and years. Montezuma cypress Taxodium mucronatum loves it inside over winter.I hope your not confusing trees or me? I do have a bald/pond cypress but its kept outdoors with with my other trees that have a strict dormancy obligation. Many many trees do not!
Pododocarpus, pomegranate and serissa are the ones I have. But those trees range at least into the sub tropics. I put those trees out in full sun once it warms up in spring. And sometimes they look like the need it. I do have a couple of rows of LEDs for my many house plants and lots of south facing windows. I keep my place is cool. Ha! But I think that may be a critical factor to keep them going through the lean period?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I hope your not confusing trees or me?

Again, it depends on the species. Montezuma bald cypress is a tropical tree from central Mexico. The fact that you bring it in during the winter, and set it back out during the summer, is what many people here do with their tropical trees (including myself). This discussion is specifically for people who want to keep bonsai in an apartment, or similar environment, where they cannot put their trees outdoors... ever. It is not controversial to say that most trees cannot be kept indoors 24/7/365. You are pointing out the few exceptions to the rule. Try doing the same thing with a Japanese white pine, or Japanese maple. Or for that matter, a sugar maple, American elm, red oak, or eastern hemlock - natives in your area.

 

[rusticana]

Again, it depends on the species. Montezuma bald cypress is a tropical tree from central Mexico. The fact that you bring it in during the winter, and set it back out during the summer, is what many people here do with their tropical trees (including myself). This discussion is specifically for people who want to keep bonsai in an apartment, or similar environment, where they cannot put their trees outdoors... ever. It is not controversial to say that most trees cannot be kept indoors 24/7/365. You are pointing out the few exceptions to the rule. Try doing the same thing with a Japanese white pine, or Japanese maple. Or for that matter, a sugar maple, American elm, red oak, or eastern hemlock - natives in your area.

I'm off on the wrong chanel again. Its gonna need lots of light. The pomegranate specifically I dont think could handle it not gretting back outside in full sun without some intense artificial light intervention. Heres one for you. The Glastonbury thorn Crategus monogyna 'biflora' The earliest bloomer appart from say the winter jasmine. I Bring it inside late January early Febuary from winter storage for enjoyment once the flower buds start breaking. Done so for years. It goes through a dormancy period but it never goes back out there for fear of shock factor. This year it has still not lost most of its leaves. Very unusal.

 

[Gabler]

The boxwoods will live like a houseplant just fine - you just have to water them so I don't see the point when you can leave them outside.

That caught my attention. I can't say I've ever seen a boxwood houseplant. Notwithstanding, I've gotten into the habit of bringing small batches of softwood cutting indoors for their first winter to ensure at least a few will make it to spring, and this fall I brought in a handful of Kingsville boxwood cuttings I picked up from the ground after a club demo last May. They took a while to root, ant they had only just begun to send out a few roots in late October. Now that they're inside under grow lamps, they're growing vigorously, but I do worry that I may have disrupted their yearly cycle.

 

[stubmle]

I'm off on the wrong chanel again. Its gonna need lots of light. The pomegranate specifically I dont think could handle it not gretting back outside in full sun without some intense artificial light intervention. Heres one for you. The Glastonbury thorn Crategus monogyna 'biflora' The earliest bloomer appart from say the winter jasmine. I Bring it inside late January early Febuary from winter storage for enjoyment once the flower buds start breaking. Done so for years. It goes through a dormancy period but it never goes back out there for fear of shock factor. This year it has still not lost most of its leaves. Very unusal.

Glastonbury thorn! Where did you get that from? I've only found a couple of sellers in North America so far and neither has had any stock lately.

 

[rusticana]

Glastonbury thorn! Where did you get that from? I've only found a couple of sellers in North America so far and neither has had any stock laI

It was my fathers tree. He brought them back from England. As cuttings I suppose? Once there was 3 but he donated them to an abby and they did'nt have the wherewithall to get them established. My cuttings showed promise but never woke up in spring. Now the tree has sent up suckers and I have sucsessfully removed some. Have yet to see what they become? I belieive from seed they revert to the usual type?

 

[stubmle]

It was my fathers tree. He brought them back from England. As cuttings I suppose? Once there was 3 but he donated them to an abby but they did'nt have the wherewithall to get them established. My cuttings showed promise but never woke up in spring. Now the tree has sent up suckers and I have sucsessfully removed some. Have yet to see what they become? I belieive from seed they revert to the usual type?

You have something very special! Do you know if it is grafted or on its own roots?

 

[rusticana]

You have something very special! Do you know if it is grafted or on its own roots?

We'll see once the off shoots I removed flower. Probably next spring. One of them will be entering its 3rd year. Theres no evidence of a graft. I think the strange roots suggest a heel or diagonal cutting ? He went to the Glastonbury Abbey on his final visit with his brother. They are the guys that saved the tree with cuttings after Cromwell had it cut down, Apparently theres lots in the area now. He also had connections with Kew Gardens.

 

[JackHammer]

That caught my attention. I can't say I've ever seen a boxwood houseplant. Notwithstanding, I've gotten into the habit of bringing small batches of softwood cutting indoors for their first winter to ensure at least a few will make it to spring, and this fall I brought in a handful of Kingsville boxwood cuttings I picked up from the ground after a club demo last May. They took a while to root, ant they had only just begun to send out a few roots in late October. Now that they're inside under grow lamps, they're growing vigorously, but I do worry that I may have disrupted their yearly cycle.

Mine took a significant amount of time to root but the cuttings did finally. Probably an entire growing season.

I saw some videos about a boxwood grower out of Mississippi and that gave me the idea that they didn't need the winter. Mine did just fine all winter until I killed it in a late spring frost. :/

 

[Gabler]

Mine took a significant amount of time to root but the cuttings did finally. Probably an entire growing season.

I saw some videos about a boxwood grower out of Mississippi and that gave me the idea that they didn't need the winter. Mine did just fine all winter until I killed it in a late spring frost. :/

Mississippi has a winter. It's a very mild winter, but it is a winter.

 

[Attmos]

No light on earth can truly simulate sunlight

Window glass filters out certain wavelengths of light so is not a substitute for real sunlight.

Temperate trees need the yearly seasonal cycle of light and temperature for their natural biological rhythm. This can not be reliably simulated indoors.

Air Inside a closed up house is not the same as outside.

In summary: you can not replicate nature Inside a house

I disagree, although colder temps are difficult to reproduce. It's true that lighting can't represent the entire spectrum, but they can produce the wavelengths necessary for plants to produce the food it needs, in both the red and blue spectrums. Air can be drawn in from the outside, and expelled there...

I think it just takes a lot of thought and preparation of the right indoor space. Admittedly, that doesn't happen in someone's home.. it needs to be purpose built.

 

[JackHammer]

I disagree, although colder temps are difficult to reproduce. It's true that lighting can't represent the entire spectrum, but they can produce the wavelengths necessary for plants to produce the food it needs, in both the red and blue spectrums. Air can be drawn in from the outside, and expelled there...

I think it just takes a lot of thought and preparation of the right indoor space. Admittedly, that doesn't happen in someone's home.. it needs to be purpose built.

This is an interesting concept, kinda like saying, "can people survive on McDonald's alone?". So, yes, it is possible, certainly not ideal, but yes, it is possible. I had never considered that light wavelengths would have a different quality, similar to food. I was always of the mind that the plant would adapt their leaves to capture the optimal amount of sunlight, but only in intensity, never in quality. I suppose this is why we would have the red and blue LED lights for plants for the optimal spectrum. I always thought that was marketing.