Why not Eastern Red Cedar

[Brian Van Fleet]

You won’t get rid of that rust. It is only one of the many problems with ERC. Have fun training it you want, but eventually you will realize ERC is a trash tree. Don’t judge how other juniper species respond to Bonsai training by this one.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

I hate to say it but picture #3 looks like you have the beginning of apple Cedar rust on your tree.

Yeah, there was a pretty bad case of rust but it's all gone now, hopefully it doesn't come back...

 

[Vinnie Charity]

You say it’s “pretty nice”. What about it is nice? There’s no caliper in the trunks, there are no branches, it’s leggy... well, I guess the outer tips are green! That’s something.

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but it’s a stick in a pot. A twin trunk stick, but still a stick. That’s becoming a bush!

Yeah, it certainly isn't the best stock to work with, but again, it was free and will be fun to work with. I'll have to get some newer pictures on here and show some pictures of the trunk once I start styling it. I have tons of trees, there's just something about THIS Eastern Red Cedar that makes me want to work with it. I'm going to style it to look like a tree, not any classical bonsai styles, just a simple tree. The other ones in my yard are going in the fire pit...

 

[Vinnie Charity]

You won’t get rid of that rust. It is only one of the many problems with ERC. Have fun training it you want, but eventually you will realize ERC is a trash tree. Don’t judge how other juniper species respond to Bonsai training by this one.

Junipers are my favorite trees to train and again, I'm not expecting to win any shows with it, this one just looks cool in my opinion. I'll post more recent pics of the tree at some point but I'm not expecting much. It was a free tree with cool flaky bark that will look nice in the pot I have for it...

Thanks for all of your feedback guys (and gals?), I'll also post some pictures of my other trees so you all can see what I'm working with...

 

[Silentrunning]

To come to the defense of ERC - they make lousy bonsai but the wood is awesome. If you are fortunate enough to have a sawmill nearby, take some of the logs in and have them ripped into boards. The wood is amazing. If you are at all handy you can make great projects out of the logs. Things such as bird houses, lamps, rustic placemats and even beds. Even though it is actually a Juniper, the wood is almost identical to Cedar. Any of the scraps are great for cooking Salmon on over the grill. Sadly though, as for bonsai, it is like trying to make a Rolls Royce out of Yugo parts.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

To come to the defense of ERC - they make lousy bonsai but the wood is awesome. If you are fortunate enough to have a sawmill nearby, take some of the logs in and have them ripped into boards. The wood is amazing. If you are at all handy you can make great projects out of the logs. Things such as bird houses, lamps, rustic placemats and even beds. Any of the scraps are great for cooking Salmon on over the grill. Sadly though, as for bonsai, it is like trying to make a Rolls Royce out of Yugo parts.

I'm a woodworker and cedar is one of my favorite woods to work with. It makes the shop smell good when you machine it, it has beautiful grain, and it has amazing rot resistance for outdoor projects...

 

[rockm]

When ERC comes up, there are always the "I'm going to work on it NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ONE SAYS" group. This species must give off some kind of chemical signal that makes people completely irrational and emotional about it ;-)

After people wake up from that initial high, they soon discover that ERC is a complete waste of time, laden with esthetic and health issues. Not the least of those esthetic challenges is that 99.9 percent of the trees in the wild are EXTREMELY BORING and bland. Putting them in a pot doesn't make them any more interesting.

The only thing ERC is good for is making cedar chests for blankets and as kindling...possibly as a scraggly alternative Christmas tree..

 

[Vinnie Charity]

When ERC comes up, there are always the "I'm going to work on it NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ONE SAYS" group. This species must give off some kind of chemical signal that makes people completely irrational and emotional about it ;-)

After people wake up from that initial high, they soon discover that ERC is a complete waste of time, laden with esthetic and health issues. Not the least of those esthetic challenges is that 99.9 percent of the trees in the wild are EXTREMELY BORING and bland. Putting them in a pot doesn't make them any more interesting.

The only thing ERC is good for is making cedar chests for blankets and as kindling...possibly as a scraggly alternative Christmas tree..

I've seen some pretty nice ERC's, not many, but I've seen some nice ones. I'm not expecting much out of this tree, but it will be good practice for working on my better material. I have a thick-trunked Bald Cypress that I'm going to be doing some work to very soon and I'm expecting big things from this guy...

 

[Silentrunning]

When ERC comes up, there are always the "I'm going to work on it NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ONE SAYS" group. This species must give off some kind of chemical signal that makes people completely irrational and emotional about it ;-)

After people wake up from that initial high, they soon discover that ERC is a complete waste of time, laden with esthetic and health issues. Not the least of those esthetic challenges is that 99.9 percent of the trees in the wild are EXTREMELY BORING and bland. Putting them in a pot doesn't make them any more interesting.

The only thing ERC is good for is making cedar chests for blankets and as kindling...possibly as a scraggly alternative Christmas tree..

Don’t forget, they make great fence posts too.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

Don’t forget, they make great fence posts too.

They are useful for a lot of things. I have a bunch of cedar logs I'll be milling up very soon too, not sure what I'm going to do with them yet, but more than likely I'll be building a modern set of outdoor chairs...

 

[rockm]

I've seen some pretty nice ERC's, not many, but I've seen some nice ones. I'm not expecting much out of this tree, but it will be good practice for working on my better material. I have a thick-trunked Bald Cypress that I'm going to be doing some work to very soon and I'm expecting big things from this guy...

Define "nice" and post some pics of them. ;-)

I've found that "nice" ERC when seen in photos or in person, tend to be well, "mediocre" is a polite way to describe them.

I've been doing bonsai for going on 30 years now. I've seen two or three ERC in that time that were notable, and even then, not really up to the quality of a good shimpaku or God Forbid, a western-collected conifer.

I live in an area where old ERC are present--they're sentinels at the Federicksburg National Civil War cemetery. Mt. Vernon, and any number of other Revolutionary/Civil war battlefields and sites. They CAN be picturesque trees, given 200 years to mellow and age. They don't do that in a bonsai container, unless you find one with a substantial short trunk that has been whacked and hacked by plows, bush hogs, bulldozers, axes, etc. over the decades. They're not common...

 

[Vinnie Charity]

Define "nice" and post some pics of them. ;-)

I've found that "nice" ERC when seen in photos or in person, tend to be well, "mediocre" is a polite way to describe them.

I've been doing bonsai for going on 30 years now. I've seen two or three ERC in that time that were notable, and even then, not really up to the quality of a good shimpaku or God Forbid, a western-collected conifer.

I live in an area where old ERC are present--they're sentinels at the Federicksburg National Civil War cemetery. Mt. Vernon, and any number of other Revolutionary/Civil war battlefields and sites. They CAN be picturesque trees, given 200 years to mellow and age. They don't do that in a bonsai container, unless you find one with a substantial short trunk that has been whacked and hacked by plows, bush hogs, bulldozers, axes, etc. over the decades. They're not common...

Mediocre is the word I would use, and I've seen MAYBE 2 ERC's that were simply stunning. I'm in Richmond by the way, very cool that you are in Fredericksburg...

Here are a couple I found online that are fairly nice...

 

[rockm]

Mediocre is the word I would use, and I've seen MAYBE 2 ERC's that were simply stunning. I'm in Richmond by the way, very cool that you are in Fredericksburg...

Here are a couple I found online that are fairly nice...

View attachment 211039View attachment 211040

The one on the left is in the N.C. arboretum. The one on the right is, well, OK, I guess and could just as well be a nursery juniper...I'm not in Fredericksburg, but a bit north of there.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

The one on the left is in the N.C. arboretum. The one on the right is, well, OK, I guess and could just as well be a nursery juniper...I'm not in Fredericksburg, but a bit north of there.

Again, not STUNNING, but nice nonetheless. I was just up at the National Arboretum in DC on Saturday, but the bonsai exhibit was closed when we arrived...(sigh)

I'll have to make a trip down to the NC Arboretum soon...

 

[Mike Hennigan]

It is possible to graft other juniper foliage onto ERC, shimpaku for example, on the off chance that you can actually find a trunk worth grafting onto. Which you probably will not. Nick Lenz talks about this in his book Bonsai from the Wild. In that chapter on ERC he talks in depth about what a pain in the ass trying to work with ERC foliage is and why it is a pain in the ass. So if you stumble across that one in a million ERC trunk that is worth grafting onto, go for it. But otherwise don’t bother.

 

[rockm]

Again, not STUNNING, but nice nonetheless. I was just up at the National Arboretum in DC on Saturday, but the bonsai exhibit was closed when we arrived...(sigh)

I'll have to make a trip down to the NC Arboretum soon...

Nice is kind of the point. There isn't really a compelling reason to have collected that second one. The same image can be made using a nursery stock juniper.

don't know if you have ever been to the National Arb's collection, but if you haven't, it will re-set your view of what bonsai is and can be.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

Nice is kind of the point. There isn't really a compelling reason to have collected that second one. The same image can be made using a nursery stock juniper.

don't know if you have ever been to the National Arb's collection, but if you haven't, it will re-set your view of what bonsai is and can be.

I know good bonsai, I know bad bonsai, and I know practice material. I really like the simplicity of the second one, though it will never win any shows.

I have trees styled to look like the adult versions of trees (like that second one) vs. only having classically styled bonsai. That is what my goal is for the ERC, nothing exciting...

As for the National Arboretum's collection, I've only seen pictures of them and I will be going back to see them in person, just didn't realize it closed at 4pm.

 

[rockm]

I know good bonsai, I know bad bonsai, and I know practice material. I really like the simplicity of the second one, though it will never win any shows.

I have trees styled to look like the adult versions of trees (like that second one) vs. only having classically styled bonsai. That is what my goal is for the ERC, nothing exciting...

I bet all of that changes after you get a look at the trees in the Museum...Keep an eye out on the Museum's Messages board. Come spring, look for behind the scenes tours. They usually have at least one in the Spring. They give you a look at the overwintering facilities, workrooms etc., as well as the trees up close.
https://www.bonsai-nbf.org/museum-messages-2/

The arb's main event pages can also list some of this stuff. You can sign up for alerts...
https://www.usna.usda.gov/visit/events-calendar/

 

[Vinnie Charity]

I bet all of that changes after you get a look at the trees in the Museum...Keep an eye out on the Museum's Messages board. Come spring, look for behind the scenes tours. They usually have at least one in the Spring. They give you a look at the overwintering facilities, workrooms etc., as well as the trees up close.
https://www.bonsai-nbf.org/museum-messages-2/

The arb's main event pages can also list some of this stuff. You can sign up for alerts...
https://www.usna.usda.gov/visit/events-calendar/

Thanks for that @rockm, I'll be heading there again in a couple of weeks or so, I need to get all of my trees wired for the winter and get caught up in the shop...

 

[W3rk]

Thanks for that @rockm, I'll be heading there again in a couple of weeks or so, I need to get all of my trees wired for the winter and get caught up in the shop...

The Arboretum and especially the National Bonsai Museum is pretty much my favorite place in the Metro DC area. You won't be disappointed. This time of year the garden outside with all of the peppers is also great, though probably won't last til you get there. But depending on when you make it you might catch the Bonsai in fall which is spectacular.