Why not Eastern Red Cedar

Silentrunning

Silentrunning

Chumono
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Location
Warrenton North Carolina
USDA Zone
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I am brand new to bonsai so I have been mainly studying as opposed to actually working on trees. I only have 2 Junipers I am working on so far. In my studies I find very few people using Eastern Red Cedar as bonsai material. I was wondering why this is since it is almost impossible to look around in North Carolina without seeing one. I have hundreds of them on my property and it would be nice to work on a native tree.
 
there's a really good looking one on display in NC (I believe). They probably make fine bonsai, just not as good as some of the more studied species. Less literature. Everyone here will tell you something different about them but the only way to learn is to try. I wasted a lot of time letting folks online tell me certain species were no good or couldn't do certain things. Then one year later someone would be talking about how great a species is. A lot of it is a matter of opinion, gotta get your hands dirty to have one. And welcome to the forum! your state is home to my favorite trees in the world
 
Silentrunning said:
I am brand new to bonsai so I have been mainly studying as opposed to actually working on trees. I only have 2 Junipers I am working on so far. In my studies I find very few people using Eastern Red Cedar as bonsai material. I was wondering why this is since it is almost impossible to look around in North Carolina without seeing one. I have hundreds of them on my property and it would be nice to work on a native tree.
Click to expand...

So, I'll bite here. It's a crappy species to work with for a number of reasons you have to experience first hand. Just because its common, doesn't make it worth pulling your hair out over (which you will do at some point in developing it as bonsai)

Take a closer look at all those ERC you see around. In particular, look at their trunks. Find one that's interesting and worth collecting and isn't beanpole straight for the first five feet with no taper, branching or character-I'm not talking about saplings, seedlings, but about yamadori-like trunks over two inches in diameter. Those collectible older specimens are extremely rare. Good yamadori isn't worth digging unless it has character. ERC rarely has any.

Hammering even seedling ERC in to bonsai can be a long frustrating task, as they tend to have extremely thin spindly branching that doesn't thicken to any great extent very quickly. They also tend to revert to spiky, sharp, lanky floppy juvenile foliage in containers without the right timing/techniques. Some sadists have grafted shimpaku juniper foliage onto ERC trunks to get rid of the 'natural foliage on more notable ERC trunks.

I'm always amused when someone takes all this as some kind of personal insult and gets an "I'll show them" attitude about it. OK, have at it. come back in five years with something that looks half decent and I might change my mind about this species. I've been doing bonsai for 25 years now, have seen a handful of nice ERC and only two or three really nice ones. The vast majority I've seen around are mostly mediocre to really bad...
 
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Ditto what Mark said. I'm even somewhat convinced that the nice ERC bonsai that have been claimed over the years were actually a different juniper altogether. I mean, ERC is a very bad subject. I fought it for a few years as a beginner myself.
 
We have a ton of them here in TN too..they are literally everywhere. Because they are so abundant, they have been a great tree for me to learn from. I have collected several of them.

Folks will say they are trash for bonsai..but I would listen to, and agree with @GGB. The biggest criticism of the species I have seen is that they typically grow straight up in the wild etc. However, I have found that this is not always the case if you can find them on slopes.

I would be really careful with collection technique. I've killed several for several reasons in the past year. I would hold off on anything to stress the tree in the first year. Please do not bare root them following collection.
 
I dug up some seedlings and tried to make a forest out of them. I fought it for several years but finally gave up. They were infected with rust and I couldn't get rid of it.
 
TN_Jim said:
We have a ton of them here in TN too..they are literally everywhere. Because they are so abundant, they have been a great tree for me to learn from. I have collected several of them.

Folks will say they are trash for bonsai..but I would listen to, and agree with @GGB. The biggest criticism of the species I have seen is that they typically grow straight up in the wild etc. However, I have found that this is not always the case if you can find them on slopes.

I would be really careful with collection technique. I've killed several for several reasons in the past year. I would hold off on anything to stress the tree in the first year. Please do not bare root them following collection.
Click to expand...
Photos? Oops spoke too soon. Looks like you're in the initial stages. Good luck
 
Silentrunning said:
I have hundreds of them on my property and it would be nice to work on a native tree.
Click to expand...

My honest opinion after having several for several years -

Tough plants to work with, should you decide to consider getting small one's and working on the shape immediately - wait to long and they will land up in the trash like mine did.

I have only seen a couple that looked ok in Bonsai.

They are easy growers but the foliage gets out of hand quickly. It is not nice soft foliage and I saw little back budding on mine so trim carefully.

Now for starting out learning to grow any plant in a pot is great - if you have a lot by all means try them potted and if you keep them alive great, if not no big loss...

Welcome to the Journey

Grimmy
 
ERC was the very first tree I ever had "thrive" for me, it's also the first tree I succesfully collected, twice. a young one and an old one. Don't work with juniper anymore but they taught me some stuff. I don't grow apples either, so apple cedar rust wasn't a problem. But it seems inmpossible to keep both species anywhere near eachother.
 
I am one of the "I'll show you"'s....

Welcome to Crazy!

But is important to note that this hasnt continued die to human emotion....


Rather....

This is one of the few trees in my "live or die" garden that has left me with absolutely no questions as to why it does what it does.

If a branch dies, its cause I broke it.
A tree dies, which hasn't happened since my first rookie one, and I have an answer to why.

Granted I have not played with many for long, and only young material.

But this "excellent dialog" between me and these trees..
Thats what makes stuff "easy" for me...

Utilizing the spruce like juvenile foliage and growth habits....
In an artistic fashion that works....

So far those are the only difficulties I have found.

So I push forward.

This year I am separating my group of 3. To plant one off as a formalish upright....and 2 into a rock planting.
To the sound of leftover fireworks.

Sorce
 
VAFisher said:
Here is picture of the one I was working on. This is the year before I gave up I think.
Click to expand...

Mine looked just like that before I tossed them, actually not bad but just not great either -

Dav4 said:
And that's about as good as the foliage ever looks as a potted tree...
Click to expand...

I certainly must agree with you. A lot of time with so-so results. By the time mine looked like those I had enough and Crystal was shaking her head when she watched me toss them so I cleaned the pot and gave to her :p It is still empty...

Oh I did also make a pretty decent "peanuts tree" one year with one too, lol

Grimmy
 
I probably would have kept on wasting my time with them if they wouldn't have been infected so badly with rust. I got a nice hawthorn from Zach and I was afraid of infecting it, so these had to go. I ended up throwing them in my fire pit and burning them. I should have taken a picture of that to serve as the end of the thread I started for that grouping.

I had fun messing with ERC and wouldn't discourage anyone from trying if they are so inclined. Just don't expect a masterpiece. And try not to dig up rusty ones like I did.
 
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