Why japanese black pine?

[bonsairxmd]

I don't think anyone said JBP is more cold hardy than JWP (I apologize if that was inferred from my post) Interesting information on JWP in Japan. Thanks

 

[Adair M]

Wow---you really don't have any people skills do you, you're right but you probably could have gotten away with saying nothing.

I guess not Vance.

This guy came on to another thread yesterday bragging that he could keep a tree he just collected alive in Texas in the dead of summer. And, he said,

"If I'm right (and I usually am)..."

Well, he then goes on in this thread and says JBP is no good because it won't live without watering during a drought.

I'm thinking, "Is this a real person? Or is it someone deliberately trolling us?"

I'm still not sure.

I mean, look at his user name: "Txhorticulture". Any horticulturist would know you have to water trees in a drought!

I know you don't like me Vance, but for some reason you follow me around.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Bill, you mentioned that JBP live along the coasts, and JWP in the mountains, but what about the JRP?

 

[Adair M]

JRP are in between.

You treat them as JBP. They are two flush trees.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

Japanese red pine grow along the coast of Japan also. I think the most common pine in Japan is the Japanese red pine. I wonder why we don't see as many trained for bonsai as the Japanese black and Japanese five-needle.

 

[Txhorticulture]

Really?....

I said i didn't water it ENOUGH in a drought. Of course i watered it.... And i admitted my mistake when I mentioned it. Are you in Georgia? We in south central texas probably get a little more than half the annual rainfall you do. We average about 30 inches a year. Drought years by definition less... Maybe as little as 20..... And during a drought we have outdoor water use restrictions. Which means you can't water even if you want to. And sometimes you don't want to. Texas is hotter than Georgia.

I am not trolling anyone. I am a grown man.i never said 'JBP is no good' (sic). Relax man. Lets all just be friends please.

If I wanted to argue id talk to my wife instead of looking at bonsai on the internet. peace brother

 

[larlamonde]

Thanks, Bill, you were actually the person I was thinking of contacting, because I knew you'd know!

And I had never considered that there would be more bonsai in China than Japan! I guess I should give myself a head slap... that's where all the Antique Chinese Pots come from!

I based my erroneous guess on Jonas's blog, "Bonsai Tonight". He has traveled extensively in Japan. And he shows a lot of JBP. Maybe because that's the kind he likes, I don't know.

I did predicate my guesses, with: "I'm guessing..."

Thanks for setting the record straight.

Not hard to believe there's more bonsai (any species) in China than Japan. Just look at a map.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

We too are going through a severe drought. I wonder if we'll be getting water restrictions here as well? That little splash of rain last Saturday seemed to do nothing more than make it more humid and nasty out here.

 

[Adair M]

Sorry, Tex.

I'm sorry you lost your trees.

I don't depend on rainfall to water my trees. If I get rain, that's a bonus.

You never said, but the trees you lost, were they in pots? Or in the ground? If they were in the ground, I can see how you could have misjudged their water needs.

I still think that JBP should do great for you.

 

[M. Frary]

Exactly how cold hardy are Japanese Black Pine. I saw a couple for sale last year at a nursery and that was zone 5. I live in 4. Could one be grown here successfully. And if so would it still be able to be a 2 flush tree or is the growing season too short here.

 

[Vance Wood]

I guess not Vance.

This guy came on to another thread yesterday bragging that he could keep a tree he just collected alive in Texas in the dead of summer. And, he said,

"If I'm right (and I usually am)..."

Well, he then goes on in this thread and says JBP is no good because it won't live without watering during a drought.

I'm thinking, "Is this a real person? Or is it someone deliberately trolling us?"

I'm still not sure.

I mean, look at his user name: "Txhorticulture". Any horticulturist would know you have to water trees in a drought!

I know you don't like me Vance, but for some reason you follow me around.

You can be angry at someone and still like them, I hold you no malice. I do know about a couple of things that make dealing with people difficult. I don't hold grudges. I have had no experience with this guy you speak of but I know him I have been running into "him" in one form or another for years. A number of years ago I ran into one of these science types that had some convoluted ideas about depressions in the stone and bonsai pots.

 

[garywood]

Mike, cold hardiness is "almost": a mute point in bonsai. I say "almost" because it depends on winterization. Some can overwinter in "climatic zones" and some cannot. Any climate zone in the U.S. can grow JBP as long as there are 90-100 days of growing season (before average first frost) after candle removal. I have personally seen JBP grown close to the Canadian border (Detroit) and as far south as Miami. The CLIMATIC zone is what YOU can give it during winter.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Japanese red pine grow along the coast of Japan also. I think the most common pine in Japan is the Japanese red pine. I wonder why we don't see as many trained for bonsai as the Japanese black and Japanese five-needle.

Me too...the older JRP are some of the best pine specimens to be seen!

I read in BT38 that they're the most common pine in Japan, and that a long time ago, if someone said they had a pine bonsai, it was assumed they were referring to JRP. When JBP and JWP became popular, JRP was basically abandoned; maybe because it was so common.

 

[garywood]

Bill & Brian, I agree wholeheartedly, working with JRP is so much more rewarding! The balance between soft\hard or feminine\masculine or the strength of one vs the ability of the other to back bud. Anywhere you look in the tree thee is some compelling reason to look a little deeper. I Love JRP

 

[Adair M]

Gary,

Do you find that the branches of red pine to be more brittle that black and/or white pine?

 

[garywood]

Gary,

Do you find that the branches of red pine to be more brittle that black and/or white pine?

OH YES!! something on the order of loblolly (Taeda ) but just like Loblolly they back-bud much more than JBP

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I've worked with a few JRP...some were more brittle than others, but all have been more brittle than JBP. I'm developing some seedlings now, and have had good success harshly wiring some great movement into the trunks, at pinky-thick diameters. The goal will be to set primary branches while they're still pretty thin too.

 

[JeffinNYC]

Greetings!

I see that this is an old thread, so I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears.

I have a pretty large, 25-year-old, non-bonsai Pinus remota in Dallas. I can tell you that I had no success growing this species until I built a raised bed filled with large stones to plant it in. In this climate it would not grow grow in water-retentive soil. In addition, P. remota is commonly described as growing in limestone, but actually it grows in very siliceous limestone--massive chert beds, in fact. In my experience it prefers a growing medium with perfect drainage, a near-neutral pH, and a high silica content.

It's a beautiful tree with a habit that should naturally lend itself to Bonsai if its large, diffuse rooting habi and its need for extremely good drainage are accommodated.

Good luck!

 

[Vance Wood]

I may be assuming something but I think most of us on this forum are not familiar with this particular Pine. Right now I don't have the time to google it and I always opt for people to post their own information and pictures. Sometimes the information you get on Google is kind of googley, I would rather hear from someone who at the least has some experience with the tree. Pictures are important.

 

[Potawatomi13]

- The list of classic pines that won't do well or will grow with difficulty in zone 8b and 9 is long. Mugo, Scots, Ponderosa, Japanese White Pine, Austrian, etc. are unproven in our area. I know people who keep ponderosa and JWP as far south as zone 8a, but I don't know anyone who has successfully grown any further south. I know many (including me) who have tried.

Complete baloney! Every one of these grows very well here in zone 8.