Why are Japanese trees/artists consistently cited as best in the world?

[eugenev2]

Some Great Questions Electraus
What makes the Japanese artists' trees so much more worthy of praise?
Japan is generations ahead of the US, many Bonsai nurseries and professionals have been building on the technique, craft, developing trees and overall standards for generations. Their standards are set very high, there's more money involved in purchasing trees and getting trees into high level Bonsai exhibitions. Japan has also had the time and knowledge to select for small leaf size, develop branches in proportion to the trunk and has higher quality pots and stands.

Yamadori or Collected conifers in the United States may be some of the best Bonsai material in the world. IMO, our best collected conifer trunks could be considered better than the best in Japan. However, their yamadori have been Bonsai for many more years on average compared to ours which is a big advantage. In terms of Deciduous and Broadleaf evergreen, Japan is many decades out in front of us as the best specimens are usually grown from seed, cutting or airlayer and take a min of 20-60 years depending on size of the final tree.

Why aren't the bonsai heavyweights outside of Japan referred to as 'masters?'
I've never liked the term "Bonsai Master." I think of Jedi Master, Dungeon Master, DoJo Master and other Corny mystical things with that term. Can you truly master anything? Does Master mean to know everything possible about the subject as in there's nothing you don't know?

I think a better term is Bonsai Professional. There are many high level Bonsai Professionals in the United States and maybe a couple Westerners practicing Bonsai professionally in Japan who could rival many Japanese professionals in Japan based on technical skill(Peter Tea, Ryan N, Michael H, Tyler S, Bjorn, etc.). However, there are many more Bonsai professionals in Japan compared to the US. It's hard to compare each Bonsai professional overall and better suited to compare each pro on technical merit in a specific category/subject. For example-maybe Ryan N is a 10/10 on Developing RMJs, but a 6/10 on most Deciduous, maybe Peter Tea is a 10/10 on scion grafting, but a 5/10 on Display(just examples not where I actually think they rank).

I have to comment here on the dislike of the word "Master", it's your opinion, so your allowed it. But i have found that most people who dislike the term are from western decent and it comes from a misconception of what the term means, it does not mean this person knows everything and is unable to learn anything more, it is simply a term used to show a sign of respect for the person in question's knowledge and skill. Because if you consider martial arts (i know i digress here at bit, but it's relevant), for example in eastern martial arts there was originally no colored belt system, it was introduced for westerners as they felt the need to advance, where as most easterners treated it as a way of life. For example I had a sensei that by all acknowledgements could be rightfully called a "Master" (he held 7th and 8th Dan in at least 4 martial arts), but he preferred to be referred to as sensei ie teacher, not because of his dislike of the word, but rather of how we westerners perceive it, as he once stated that the moment you think you know everything is the moment you stop learning and the moment you stop learning is the moment you start dying

 

[Maiden69]

i think there is also a language translation element involved . In the orient what translates to master . Is also used for other. Achievements . Like other art forms . In the western world . The word master for example in art is generally used for master sculptors or artists . That changed art and are long dead . I do not speak oriental languages . So this is just speculation . But a great many words have different or more complex meanings in other languages .

While this is true, I don't thin it applies in this case... the name they use for them is Oyakata, which English translation is literally master. In English (and also in Spanish which is my first language), the word master is also used to individuals that have an extensive knowledge in the field they perform. Master carpenter, Master welder, Master etc... The military also uses the term for experts, Navy Master-at-arms, an Army and Air Force Master Sergeants are considered an expert in his field (or was, too many people getting promoted too quickly).

 

[rockm]

I have to comment here on the dislike of the word "Master", it's your opinion, so your allowed it. But i have found that most people who dislike the term are from western decent and it comes from a misconception of what the term means, it does not mean this person knows everything and is unable to learn anything more, it is simply a term used to show a sign of respect for the person in question's knowledge and skill. Because if you consider martial arts (i know i digress here at bit, but it's relevant), for example in eastern martial arts there was originally no colored belt system, it was introduced for westerners as they felt the need to advance, where as most easterners treated it as a way of life. For example I had a sensei that by all acknowledgements could be rightfully called a "Master" (he held 7th and 8th Dan in at least 4 martial arts), but he preferred to be referred to as sensei ie teacher, not because of his dislike of the word, but rather of how we westerners perceive it, as he once stated that the moment you think you know everything is the moment you stop learning and the moment you stop learning is the moment you start dying

In traditional Japanese arts, the Iemoto system is the model. The model sets a hierarchy among the top levels of Iemoto (or schools), Headmasters, teachers and students. It has been used for traditional Japanese arts such as Noh, Ikebana, calligraphy, as well as martial arts. The system passed down techniques and traditions associated with each art.

Bonsai developed outside the Iemoto tradition by design, as I understand it. Maybe someone who is familiar with the Japan bonsai world can comment further or correct me. "Master" in bonsai does have some connotations in bonsai, but as a hierarchy, it means nothing, really. The term is used loosely for someone who has a lot of knowledge and good trees, basically The closest thing to an actual master might be certification in Japan's bonsai growers' guild.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

In traditional Japanese arts, the Iemoto system is the model. The model sets a hierarchy among the top levels of Iemoto (or schools), Headmasters, teachers and students. It has been used for traditional Japanese arts such as Noh, Ikebana, calligraphy, as well as martial arts. The system passed down techniques and traditions associated with each art.

Bonsai developed outside the Iemoto tradition by design, as I understand it. Maybe someone who is familiar with the Japan bonsai world can comment further or correct me. "Master" in bonsai does have some connotations in bonsai, but as a hierarchy, it means nothing, really. The term is used loosely for someone who has a lot of knowledge and good trees, basically The closest thing to an actual master might be certification in Japan's bonsai growers' guild.

As you so we’ll have stated here . The long period of time bonsai has been practiced and improved in Japan . This has to be considered . From tree and bonsai artists .perspective . Unlike other forms of art a bonsai is not static and finished . It continues to grow . Therefore In Japan there are masterpiece bonsai that are old . And have been masterpieces for a long time with multiple people having worked on and or changed . . It’s simple math the level of quality of the trees is higher . They are old having been worked on by multiple skilled . People . And have time on there side to have developed . In the west there are talented practicing people . With some great creations especially from collected material . But 50 years of development as a bonsai is rare . How great will these trees be in 100 years after multiple people have worked on them . And they have that great be if it of time

 

[Emanon]

I have to comment here on the dislike of the word "Master", it's your opinion, so your allowed it. But i have found that most people who dislike the term are from western decent and it comes from a misconception of what the term means...

All I know is that it is no longer correct or proper in real estate in the United States to refer to the primary bedroom in the house as the "master" bedroom. Many people here are just offended by the use of the word master and its association with slavery.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I think the reason they are referred as Masters is because they have been teaching the art for most part of their lives. Just like a Kung Fu Sifu or Karate Sensei... there are plenty of professional martial artists, but a Sifu or a Sensei is a master because they instruct.

Very good analogy. The "master" of any given martial art is unlikely to be the one wearing the championship belt or even actively fighting. He isn't the master because he's the best or invincible. I have to imagine there are similar factors at play in bonsai as well.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

There is a lot to say here, but 2 things come to mind:

Industry is a major factor: the ‘masters’ are backed by an entire industry of dedicated growers and hobbyists producing high-quality material of all sorts. When we think of ‘masters’, we are thinking of people who often spend very few years working on a tree in comparison to the number of years spent developing the tree before it arrived in their garden.

That brings me to:

The network for the exchange of material in Japan is another major factor: in-person auctions occur daily all over japan. At most of the auctions people show up with material at all levels of quality and the buyers for a given tree tend to be people who have a particular vision for that tree (i.e. they ‘like’ it). In other words, this system not only helps trees move ‘up the ranks’ (so to speak) from the person starting the cutting to the ‘masters’, but also helps get the right trees in the right hands. This system also makes it such that people are not buying material just because it is advanced or ‘rare’ in the market — rather, the attitude is more like, “i’ll wait for a different one to come along”. Leaving an auction empty handed is not a defeat, it’s the sign of a wise and patient buyer. This often seems impossible in north america, and i know that I am not alone in having bought material just because “i don’t know if i’ll ever see one like that again”.

I attend many of these auctions virtually, and often what is available at a single auction far outshines all of the material you would find in a lifetime as an individual looking in the current system in north america.

We (North America) need more/better of a production industry (pre-bonsai nurseries).

We need more hobbyists growing larger volumes of trees (e.g. somebody growing 250 zelkova brooms). I have been encouraging this in Canada, and currently have 6 hobbyists with jobs and families and their own bonsai collections simultaneously producing material that they can sell themselves (and if not, i promise to buy it from them) gradually or in one shot over the years. This helps fund their hobby, and in turn helps supply and improve material for future generations.

We need a better exhange system. I don’t know what that system should look like, but right now coming across good material (of any age) often feels like ‘good luck’, and it shouldn’t be that way. It’s true that as one matures in the hobby it becomes easier to find better material, but the situation is far from optimal.

 

[Maiden69]

We (North America) need more/better of a production industry (pre-bonsai nurseries).

Completely agree with you! There is a need for them indeed. Also, the material coming out of some of the nurseries now, to my eyes, is substandard for the price requested. At least from the nurseries that "mass produce" trees right now. Matt O. and Brent are a few that I buy from, mostly cuttings and seedlings. At the stage I am at, I am not indulging in the specimen/big pre-bonsai purchases, not until I know I can keep them alive in actual bonsai pots.

It’s true that as one matures in the hobby it becomes easier to find better material, but the situation is far from optimal.

Yes, but this is mostly because of the connections made through the journey. Granted you could buy a decent tree from certain individuals, but their name and knowledge comes with a hefty price.

 

[Maiden69]

All I know is that it is no longer correct or proper in real estate in the United States to refer to the primary bedroom in the house as the "master" bedroom. Many people here are just offended by the use of the word master and its association with slavery.

Ignorance... but ok. And we are discussing bonsai here, and the term master in bonsai is mostly used as an adjective or a verb... although master can be used as a noun to describe "a worker or artisan qualified to teach apprentices," which is on point with what a bonsai master is.

So please keep the political BS out... not relevant to the discussion at all.

Definition of MASTER

a male teacher; a person holding an academic degree higher than a bachelor's but lower than a doctor's; also : the degree itself; a revered religious leader… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Merrian- Webster : Master
adjective
Definition of master (Entry 2 of 3)
: being or relating to a master: such as
a: having chief authority : DOMINANT
b: SKILLED, PROFICIENTa prosperous master builder— Current Biography
c: PRINCIPAL, PREDOMINANT
d: SUPERLATIVE —often used in combinationa master-liar
e: being a device or mechanism that controls the operation of another mechanism or that establishes a standard (such as a dimension or weight)
f: being or relating to a master from which duplicates are made

Master
verb
mastered; mastering\ ˈma-st(ə-)riŋ \
Definition of master (Entry 3 of 3)
transitive verb
1: to become master of : OVERCOMEmastered his fears
2a: to become skilled or proficient in the use ofmaster a foreign language
b: to gain a thorough understanding ofhad mastered every aspect of publishing— Current Biography
3: to produce a master recording of (something, such as a musical rendition)

 

[hemmy]

Something I’ve heard of happening with older pots and stands from Japan and I think is also happening with older trees, is the importation of high end specimen into China. Again only hear say, but it’s my understanding that the market for bonsai in Japan while still very Robust, is not what it once was and the Chinese are starting to purchase and import world class trees and even buying back antique Chinese pots. Can anyone corroborate this? Cause I don’t know this for a fact.

I have heard the same about Chinese antique pots and Japanese trees from various podcasts and interviews. I don’t have any first hand knowledge, but take a look at Kimura’s recents works. He builds (artificial?) stone plantings that look very penjing influenced and I assume are being sold to the China market.

 

[BrightsideB]

This is a very interesting thread. I have enjoyed reading peoples experience and thoughts. I think the term master in reference to a persons knowledge and ability in a certain skill is very descriptive. I probably use it a little loosely.