Very confused wrt Peter Adams's 'Bonsai w/Japanese Maples'

[caerolle]

Posting this in parts as publishing it keeps crashing, sorry... [EDIT] I consolidated your posts for you - BNut [/EDIT]

I am new to bonsai and want to grow some Japanese maples. I heard that Adams's book was a great resource for this, and was hoping for some step-by-step instructions (sadly in-person instruction is pretty limited where I live). I have read through it a few times, but today tried to deeply understand a section on trunk development and found it extremely confusing. I am hoping for some guidance from someone who has and understands this book, or just guidance period along the lines of what I want to do.

I am trying to follow the 'Development in Boxes: Slimmer Trunks but with Character' section (page 39). My confusion starts right in Year One, where he says use 4-5 yo maple and prune it adjacent to a pair of buds or twigs, removing 2/3 of the trunk, while the accompanying figure seems to show a whole tree and says Year one—the tree is established in a box. Then, Year Two, he says In late winter choose the shoots that will form the new trunk line and the first branch and Choose the length of the new trunk line to create the *step one* movement in the future trunk and then says to mark the location of the cuts for pruning the following year. In the previous Development in Boxes section, he called the first cut (of the trunk) Step One, and the first new leader Step Two. And again, the accompanying figure for marking the tree seems to show a whole tree, and no trunk cut.

Later in Year Two he says Think, when deciding on the length of the new trunk line *step one* how big a tree you want because that helps the decision as to where to put the prune because the space between trunk steps should diminish steadily up the tree (and gives details of the ratios). But to me, that should be included in the first cut, of the original trunk, as well as the final length of the new leader? Or maybe he means to shorten the trunk a second time? Very confused as to what he means in all this.

In Year Three he says in March to prune the roots and re-pot and then prune at the marks made in the previous winter. The figure showing the root being pruned shows a tree that obviously has had the trunk cut. The next figure shows 'strong shoots developing' and also shows a tree that has had the trunk cut. The next figure shows 'strong shoots developing' and also shows a tree that has had the trunk cut.

 

[0soyoung]

I am hoping for some guidance from someone who has and understands this book, or just guidance period along the lines of what I want to do.

So, do you have a tree?
If so, post a pic.

Secondly, what is your skill basis?
Have you ever done any kind of gardening?
Have you ever grown a plant in a pot before?
... etc.

Lastly, you should have noticed that this is a years long process. It only that matters is that you have a perspective of the overall process --> where you are headed. But for now, you should read and understand the first step thoroughly. Then you should execute step 1. This should be easy enough.

Then you have another year to read and think about step 2. reread and rethink about step 2 and reread and rethink about step 2 until, you know it better than your own name. Then (the) next year you will execute step 2.

 

[caerolle]

So, do you have a tree?
If so, post a pic.

Secondly, what is your skill basis?
Have you ever done any kind of gardening?
Have you ever grown a plant in a pot before?
... etc.

Lastly, you should have noticed that this is a years long process. It only that matters is that you have a perspective of the overall process --> where you are headed. But for now, you should read and understand the first step thoroughly. Then you should execute step 1. This should be easy enough.

Then you have another year to read and think about step 2. reread and rethink about step 2 and reread and rethink about step 2 until, you know it better than your own name. Then (the) next year you will execute step 2.

I have some little trees coming in. They will all need growing more in the pots they are in until at least next year, so sure, I have time! But I need to figure this out at some point, now seems as fine a time as any. Also, it is the very first step that confuses me, whether to cut the tree when I put it in the box or to leave it as-is.~

I do have lot of experience with plants. I grew up on a farm, so we had field crops, a large garden, and a lot of trees. Plus I had a lot of houseplants. Since then I have almost always had annuals in pots, and in the place I have lived for the last 15 years, I have some in-ground flowers, too, as well as containers. I even illicitly planted a Japanese maple here a few years ago and have pruned it over the years. I have no experience with bonsai, but have done a massive amount of research. I realize this does not equal experience, but am old and trying to compress things as much as possible.

Btw, still have not gotten all my post in, posting is failing continuously, and I have to keep rebooting my computer. Have been at it about two hours now. Forum seems messed up, at least for me...

Thanks for your reply!

 

[caerolle]

OK, fairly well unable to post, so cutting to the chase, lol:

I cannot for the life of me figure out whether I should grow the tree in the box for two years before making any cuts, and then prune the trunk to length, select and prune the new leader, and select and prune the first branch all at once, or prune the trunk to length when I first plant it in the box, then grow through that year and second year and do the new leader and branch selection and pruning in the third year. Hopefully someone can give me some guidance on this...

In the end I will probably just see how big the trunk is and if it is big enough, cut it down when I put it in the box. If not, I will let it grow out a year or two in the box and cut it down and either select a limb for a new leader and cut that to the right length, or cut it back when I cut the trunk and wait for some new shoots at that node. I would like to understand the method Adams describes, though...~

 

[0soyoung]

Thanks, that helps.
I use a desktop for lengthy posts instead of my phone. Maybe that helps too.

I am going to assume that your real question is 'why?'. At least that is what I will attempt to answer as pointless for me to attempt to copy or rewrite Peter's book.

By Peter's methodology, the trunk is planted at an angle from vertical. There are practical as well as aesthetic reasons for this. The practical reason with Japanese maples is that some ugly die back can occur when one chops a vertical trunk, as happened to me when I air layered the off the top of one.

Peter assumes that when you plant the tree on an angle, the node axis is close to being in the plane of the slant and not across it. That is, like Peter has drawn on a piece of paper: a bud/branch is on the top-side and the other on the bottom side of the slanted trunk. This is important to note when you plant the tree off-vertical.

There are many things we do in bonsai that are ill-advised in arborculture. As bonsai, strength is not an issue. Arborculture is primarily concerned with druable/strong structure and eliminating ones that make the tree vulnerable to damage. In bonsai we really don't care about strength just because the tree is small and we will always protect it (it is very movable). So aesthetics drive most decisions.

Japanese maples have 'opposed' or 'opposite' leaves. The point on the stem where this occurs is a node. The stem in between is the internode. A stem will never occur naturally in the internode. It will always be a blank stem segment (unless grafted). Another rendition is that leaves/buds/stems only occur at nodes.

If you've bought some varietal Japanese maples, they will almost certainly be grafted onto a generic green/red acer palmatum. The mismatch between the growth rates and bark of the cultivar versus the root stock most often becomes aesthetically objectionable, ultimately. This is most often addressed by air layering the cultivar off the root stock. Not all cultivars do well on their own roots, but the rootstock itself is usually excellent raw material for bonsai. Even if this isn't the case, roots are sometime such a mess that one is better off air/ground layering the tree to start over building the nebari. Peter presumes that this has already been dealt on the 4-5 year old starting tree.

I cannot for the life of me figure out whether I should grow the tree in the box for two years before making any cuts

A universal basic is that when cut, stems/trunks do not thicken much at all until the new shoot (closest to the cut) is nearly as thick. In bonsai this fact is utilized to create trunks/stems that taper much more radically that naturally, but appropriately for the scale of a bonsai. The bonsai aesthetic rule of thumb for feminine forms/species *like Japanese maples) is that the lowest part of the trunk should be about 1/12th the target height of the bonsai being created. IOW, you need a base trunk (i.e., the lowest internode) of about 2 inch caliper to make a bonsai roughly 2 feet (24 inches) tall. What this means is that you need to let your little tree grow until the bottom internode is more than one inch thick before you 'chop' it.

 

[0soyoung]

Well, that is far worse than PA.

Let it grow until the trunk is as thick as you want OR you've run out of patience. Then cut as prescribed by Peter.

 

[Shibui]

There are more than one way to grow a maple bonsai. There is also quite a bit of leeway with timing and how to cut so don't get too bogged down with whether to cut before or after. As long as you follow the basic steps you should end up with a reasonable result.
It won't really matter whether you cut the trunk when planting in the first year or leave that to the following year. In both cases you'll get a thicker trunk and a change of direction and taper. Just different years and in a different order.
Sometimes, due to insufficient growth you may defer the yearly work until the tree has grown enough. We need to be flexible when growing plants.

Your intuition in making every chop in relation to the final size is good. Each section a little shorter than the ones below looks good. Not a rigid rule but helps produce a good looking tree. JM are frustrating and often won't co-operate with the plan as laid out. maybe they have not read the book? Sometimes you'll need to go back a step and make the cut below a previous one to get a better result so be flexible wit your application of these 'rules'.

I respect Osoyoung's knowledge but don't agree with his assertion about vertical trunks. The experience he shows is just one incidence and does not constitute a trend. I too prefer the trunk to be at an angle and grow most of my trees that way but that's just aesthetic. There are many good vertical maple bonsai so it is not all about vertical and upper and lower buds.

A reality of growing things is that they don't all respond the same. Even though I've been doing this for near 40 years some still don't turn out as planned. That's not the process it's just the vagaries of working with living things so please don't expect every attempt to be a masterpiece, even if you do manage to figure out the steps in the book.

 

[sorce]

I think you are putting too much effort into understanding this very rigid book instruction, when in real life, it rarely happens that way.

You can browse through here to find actual pics of actual trees with actual timespans.

I think this is my best representation.

Ulmus Pole to Dos.

Starting a thread on this since I'm accessing old pics right now. This pic was from 05/2012. Gotta post new ones from the phone. Sorce

www.bonsainut.com

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[BrianBay9]

By the way, there is a very active Indianapolis Bonsai Club ( http://www.indybonsai.org/ ). Once this COVID thing has subsided you should check them out. If you're looking for individual instruction I can highly recommend Mark Fields ( http://www.bonsaibyfields.com/ ). He's on the south side of town.

 

[caerolle]

Thanks, guys, I appreciate all the help and advice! I read it all, and will read it a few more times!

Btw, Osoyoung, I don't want the graft junctions, so all my trees are ordered from Evergreen, and are from cuttings. And I have read through everything on his site like ten times, including the ratio rules you mention, and his advice on trunk thickening, which like you said too says to get the trunk at least half your final desired thickness before cutting and starting the new leader.

Source, thanks for the link! I have tried to look at pics of trees online, but have struggled a bit to find photos of final trees that are large enough to see a lot of detail. I love progression posts and try to find those in blogs or this forum.

Brian, I do plan on participating in the club when they reopen, but that will not be until July at the earliest.

Thanks again, guys, I am a very long-range thinker and planner, so even though my trees will take a long time to get anywhere (and won't ever develop to any kind of final tree in the time I have left) I love to think through options and possibilities stretching out into the future!

 

[MrWunderful]

As a counter point, “Bonsai Maples” by Meriggioli is an excellent resource on maple trees and a bit more updated.

Bonsai Maples- Andrea Meriggioli

Received my newest book the other day and i am finding it well worth obtaining. Of particular interest so far is the clear summary of development techniques and stages described beginning in chapter eight. Clear pictures, descriptions and discussion. I am only part way through the book but...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[caerolle]

As a counter point, “Bonsai Maples” by Merrigiolli is an excellent resource on maple trees and a bit more updated.

Yes, I tried to get that, but the only place I could find that sells it is Bonsai Focus, and they are out of stock. Supposedly they will let me know when they are available again. I even went to Merrigiolli shopping site, and as far as I could tell he only ships within the EU.

Right now I am reading Vertrees's book. I read through descriptions of trees I am getting and ones in which I am interested back when I first got the book a few weeks ago, but now have started at the beginning and reading the general info. There are actually a lot of good points about 'culture' as he calls it that can be related to growing the JMs as bonsai. I am amazed that book is so inexpensive, considering how comprehensive it is!

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[0soyoung]

I even went to Merrigiolli shopping site, and as far as I could tell he only ships within the EU.

You need to contact him directly, which you can via FaceBook. He has a page there under his name and on it the FB facility for direct messaging is available.