Very large Acer rubrum

[MMJNICE]

So I've had this tree for 4 years and in the ground at one of my properties for the last 3 years getting fat. My intention from the beginning was to create a bonsai from this material.I dug it 2 weeks ago and didn't want to start a thread till I knew it was going to make it. All three years I fed it well and watered it whenever I dropped by the property. I pruned a few branches to encourage growth in certain areas mainly to make sure the fine inner branches didn't thickin to much. As you can see from the pictures the three large trunks have runner's that have been cut off in preparation for development in a pot. Most of the growing these last 3 years where from those top trunks. When I first put the tree in the ground it measured 1and half inches across the trunk base now the trunk measures 2.7 inches across and more like 3.2 the tree is 29 inches high. when the true root base is revealed down the road. The tree did exactly what I wanted it to do by growing fast and long from the top reserving define branching for me to develop. I see this tree as an perfect example in miniature of a very natural red maple or silver maple broom type tree, at least the kinda maples i see in people's yards. I'm very excited about developing the fine branches to complete the silhouette of the tree. I'm guessing that if everything develops the way I want i could show the tree next 3 years. This thread will be a progression of what is possible with native material in a few short years. Well technically I've already got 3 years of training complete..so in 6 years hahaha .

 

[Gabler]

Are you looking for feedback?

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Sounds like a good project.

 

[FreshAirSunshine]

It sounds like a good project! @Gabler was kind enough to ask whether you’re looking for feedback or not but I’m going to jump in.

Not really feedback but more something to consider - you have a relatively long trunk without taper before a cluster of substantial branches pop out of a singular location. If it were my maple I’d consider the possibility of a clump style and airlayering right below those branches. Maple usually air layer well but I’m inexperienced with Acer rubrum. Of course that would make the tree smaller but you’d still benefit from the girth you’ve gained ground growing.

There are a few folk here with long term rubrum projects who you could look up or might comment

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I am used to getting shocked responses from people, so here goes. Now that I am 30 years into styling trees, I tend to recognize big issues early on, and take dramatic action sooner rather than later... because I have learned the disappointment that comes from keeping a tree for ten years without fixing the underlying issues.

The tree in its current state (with three leaders halfway up the trunk) will never be usable for decent bonsai. You either have to eliminate two of the leaders, or (as @FreshAirSunshine pointed out) you need to airlayer off the top of the tree and start with two trees - one multi-trunk, and the other a short base, so that you can build two new trees. Right now the tree is a sapling with the top chopped off. It is not going to convince anyone that it is an old tree in nature in miniature form. The sooner you take this dramatic work, the happier you will be, and the sooner you can start a path forward, instead of dealing with a structural problem you cannot style around and losing years in the interim.

Sometimes it helps me to view photos of old trees in nature to visualize a goal. Try to make your tree look like this - just in miniature:

 

[bwaynef]

This tree's first trunk section is too long before branching starts. See the picture posted directly above. Branching starts at 20-25% of the height of the tree. At the current thickness, you need the first section of trunk to end about where that first branch is. For the best single tree, I'd chop somewhere between that low branch and the upper prominent branching. I'd probably chop just slightly above it at an angle and count on new buds to build the branching in the apex. The higher above it you go the more likely you are to get a bud. The closer you chop it, the more likely you are to get a bud WHERE you want it ...if it buds on that section.

Airlayering will provide you more material, but it will be compromised as well and will need remediation steps similarly drastic, ...and airlayering will delay the progress you can make on this tree.

Now's a good time to do the work.

 

[NaoTK]

I will be the contrarian and say you can absolutely turn this into a nice tree. Rubrum has a strong upward tendency that you shouldn't fight. The primary branches all go up (from when the tree was young) then the secondaries come off horizontal. So this means rubrums want to be a flame or a rounded flame.

Actually, you could copy this old rubrum below. The main branch structure it set up already.

 

[Gabler]

If you want a tall forest tree, you could do something like this:

 

[Gabler]

If it were my tree, I would cut it here:

 

[MMJNICE]

Are you looking for feedback?

Sure always like feedback. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[MMJNICE]

If it were my tree, I would cut it here:

View attachment 588627

So you would basically make a shohin or a smaller tree by chopping it low. One thing i don't like much about the tree is it doesn't have much taper. Although taper isn't the main objective when making a broom type tree but still would be nice.

 

[MMJNICE]

It sounds like a good project! @Gabler was kind enough to ask whether you’re looking for feedback or not but I’m going to jump in.

Not really feedback but more something to consider - you have a relatively long trunk without taper before a cluster of substantial branches pop out of a singular location. If it were my maple I’d consider the possibility of a clump style and airlayering right below those branches. Maple usually air layer well but I’m inexperienced with Acer rubrum. Of course that would make the tree smaller but you’d still benefit from the girth you’ve gained ground growing.

There are a few folk here with long term rubrum projects who you could look up or might comment

Sure always like feedback.. I think you have made really good points. I'm glancing over the comments and seems like a few other people share your opinion about a chop. I absolutely enjoy to hear what others see in my material. I very rarely get butt hurt about whatever they would do with a project.

 

[MMJNICE]

I am used to getting shocked responses from people, so here goes. Now that I am 30 years into styling trees, I tend to recognize big issues early on, and take dramatic action sooner rather than later... because I have learned the disappointment that comes from keeping a tree for ten years without fixing the underlying issues.

The tree in its current state (with three leaders halfway up the trunk) will never be usable for decent bonsai. You either have to eliminate two of the leaders, or (as @FreshAirSunshine pointed out) you need to airlayer off the top of the tree and start with two trees - one multi-trunk, and the other a short base, so that you can build two new trees. Right now the tree is a sapling with the top chopped off. It is not going to convince anyone that it is an old tree in nature in miniature form. The sooner you take this dramatic work, the happier you will be, and the sooner you can start a path forward, instead of dealing with a structural problem you cannot style around and losing years in the interim.

Sometimes it helps me to view photos of old trees in nature to visualize a goal. Try to make your tree look like this - just in miniature:

View attachment 588593

Very interesting perspective. One thing I've learned appreciating trees all my life is that trees come in all shapes and sizes and I find trees remind me of women in that the standard image of beauty may be model in a magazine, but in the real world beautiful comes in all shapes, sizes, colors, and weights. In otherwords for now I'm going to work with developing the tree in the manner it's genetics and environment produced. I have a number of rubrum in my collection that I've gone against the direction it was growing but for now I'm not changing this one. My goal is to refine the tree as a triple trunk thingy. One of the issues I feel i may have is that because of how the trunk splits into three i may have a canopy that is too wide. At least too wide for me to think is proportionate. I do think that I may eventually come to the conclusion you and others pointed out but I think i would need this growing season to see if it's moving convincingly in my direction first. I appreciate the advice because I may come to your conclusion and it always helps if others can see what I'm see too.

 

[MMJNICE]

This tree's first trunk section is too long before branching starts. See the picture posted directly above. Branching starts at 20-25% of the height of the tree. At the current thickness, you need the first section of trunk to end about where that first branch is. For the best single tree, I'd chop somewhere between that low branch and the upper prominent branching. I'd probably chop just slightly above it at an angle and count on new buds to build the branching in the apex. The higher above it you go the more likely you are to get a bud. The closer you chop it, the more likely you are to get a bud WHERE you want it ...if it buds on that section.

Airlayering will provide you more material, but it will be compromised as well and will need remediation steps similarly drastic, ...and airlayering will delay the progress you can make on this tree.

Now's a good time to do the work.

So basically chop the top and rebuild the entire tree? That's definitely a different way to proceed. I don't really mind if this tree isn't perfectly constructed from the ground up. I've done so may chops that it doesn't seem like the most interesting option for me right now. After this growing season I'll get a better idea on if my plan is feasible or if a chop or airlayer is in its future. I'll keep everyone posted on the progression and if your idea for a chop is growing on me. And btw thanks for the input. Others prospective is very valuable in the developmental phases of bonsai training for me.I do sometimes get stuck on my own future image for the tree and need different ways of looking at it.

 

[MMJNICE]

I will be the contrarian and say you can absolutely turn this into a nice tree. Rubrum has a strong upward tendency that you shouldn't fight. The primary branches all go up (from when the tree was young) then the secondaries come off horizontal. So this means rubrums want to be a flame or a rounded flame.

Actually, you could copy this old rubrum below. The main branch structure it set up already.
View attachment 588616

That's the exact way I see the tree in the future pretty much. I don't feel the need to chop all my trees and start from scratch all the time. I have quite a few red maples in my collection that I have chopped and started from scratch. This tree i didn't feel the need to do that. Especially since it already had a natural look to me. It may not be perfect but what is? No matter what anyone does there will always be a different way to look at it and I value that different protective very much. Thanks for the input . At least I know someone else sees what I see. I definitely may change my mind but I need this first session growing under close training to proceed with a different plan.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I would get rid of the straighter trunk near the young branch you've pulled down. Allow that young branch to become another trunk...and air layer it for a multi trunk composition.With an angle change to permit that taller trunk to lean some...