Very Large Airlayer -- Is It Possible?

[itisoktodance]

Can an airlayer be too large?

There's a silver maple outside my building that I'm interested in preserving via bonsai (I know it's not a good bonsai subject, not the point of this thread). The tree is hollowed out and is likely to be condemned in the spring (or the year after). Is there a chance I could airlayer the top section off it? It's around 30cm wide where I'm planning to cut, and probably more importantly, it's just half a trunk (see attached images).

The two main issues I see are:
1. It's only half a trunk. However, it's obviously still alive, so it has that secondary phloem that we need for an airlayer.
2. It's very wide, an entire 30cm in what would be its diameter.

Thus my main questions are: 1. Is it possible at all to airlayer a hollow trunk tree? and 2. Is it possible to airlayer such a large section?

Thank you in advance!



As a P.S. for why I'm interested in this tree at all, it's mostly for sentimental reasons. The boulevard here is lined with these beautiful silver maples that have an amazing bark, such that I really haven't seen on other silver maples in the city (they are not a native species). However, cilmate change is real and the summers have been getting hotter and drier, and most of the trees here are dying because of it. They dry up from the drought and then heavy winds knock them down. This one already had its top die off, but amazingly it survived. This is why I'm interested in this particular tree, even if silver maples aren't good for bonsai. I'm perfectly happy with just keeping a piece of it alive.

 

[Adamski77]

Don't know the answer to your questions but if your objective is to preserve piece of this tree and keeping it alive why don't you airlayer any of the three branches coming out of it. I think the one that goes to the right on the photo is a good candidate for successful airlayer.

... just as an alternative idea...

 

[sorce]

I reckon it's possible, but by the time the new roots have equal bark, you can have that same bark on a piece smooth currently.

So I'd aim for something higher and more likely to provide a radial root system.

Sorce

 

[rockm]

You can probably get it to root, but practically, it's not worth it. First, the species isn't the greatest for bonsai. That's the smallest issue.

IF you get it to root (if you've not neglected the air layer with watering and monitoring because you go tired of climbing up there to do it) how are you going to sever such a huge piece of wood without destroying the new, brittle roots?--chainsaw vibrations, handling the trunk, etc.--(also what are you doing up a tree with a running chainsaw? ) . Also, if you are successful in severing it, how you gonna get it down without destroying the roots. That section will likely weigh well over 50 lbs and its bulky dead weight. If you successfully get it down, you have a container big enough to handle it?

Yeah, it's a picturesque section of tree, but there are so many practical issues with it, it ain't worth the trouble. Also even if you overcome all that, in the end, that weird angle on what would be the apex can't be changed and its a real problem with what would be the final design.

Just sayin, sometimes this kind of thing is best admired from the ground and left alone...

 

[penumbra]

However, cilmate change is real and the summers have been getting hotter and drier, and most of the trees here are dying because of it. They dry up from the drought and then heavy winds knock them down.

This is the habit of silver maples in most conditions. They are brittle weak wooded trees that normally do fall apart as they get older. Believe me, I have been around awhile and outlived many of them.
Climate change is real, but these trees are seldom planted by builders in the states any more because they have become a liability.

 

[ShadyStump]

It is theoretically possible, but with something this large it could likely take a couple years to produce enough roots to survive. I've seen videos of very large maples being air layered and in those cases they were left to root for 3+ years, and weren't anything this old.

Something to consider here is that even though you're looking at something 30cm across, because it's a fairly flat section and dead on one side, you can compare this to something 30cm in circumference, which is a little less daunting.
However, those sides where the callus is rolling over the dead wood pose another problem. A portion of the cambium you would have to cut through to make a complete girdle is rolled inside there also. If not completely severed, the cambium in those parts would just cause the girdle to callus over. I'm not sure what the best solution to that problem might be.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The biggest issue I have with many YouTube videos is they don't show results. Anyone can take a video chopping up a tree, but if they don't show whether the tree survived, and if it did, what condition it was in, the video is somewhat pointless.

It is a very basic thing to go back into your video one year later, splice in 5 minutes of new content, and repost it. So I am left assuming, if it doesn't happen, that the subject material died.

 

[rockm]

The biggest issue I have with many YouTube videos is they don't show results. Anyone can take a video chopping up a tree, but if they don't show whether the tree survived, and if it did, what condition it was in, the video is somewhat pointless.

It is a very basic thing to go back into your video one year later, splice in 5 minutes of new content, and repost it. So I am left assuming, if it doesn't happen, that the subject material died.

Should be noted that the location of that big branch was very low. I have a feeling that was pretty intentional on Chan's part. Anything higher increases the chances that the branch would destroy most of its new roots in the fall from heights, not to mention more convenient tending to the air layer while its taking.

Also, overwintering an air layer can be a tricky thing, as frost and freezing can kill off new roots...

 

[Rivian]

All of the problems rockm mentioned can be overcome without too much trouble. If youre sure you want to do this. The only question to me is if silver maple roots readily.

The Peter-chan airlayer survived and did well. He showed it in one or two later videos

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Should be noted that the location of that big branch was very low. I have a feeling that was pretty intentional on Chan's part. Anything higher increases the chances that the branch would destroy most of its new roots in the fall from heights, not to mention more convenient tending to the air layer while its taking.

Also, overwintering an air layer can be a tricky thing, as frost and freezing can kill off new roots...

I struggle with this video. I don't care about the foliage... I only care about the roots - because that is what will determine whether the layer lives or dies. Instead we see 10 minutes of them pruning extraneous branches and talking about everything that doesn't matter.

So we have a three year air-layer project with roots only on one side of the trunk, that is separated and stuck into a large nursery container and we never see again. Who knows if this would be better than air-layering a smaller branch, getting better roots, separating it in one year, and letting it grow freely for two more years?

It sounds like I am ripping Peter Chan when actually I don't know the outcome, so perhaps he was super successful and now has an amazing tree. It would be great to get an update.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

The biggest issue I have with many YouTube videos is they don't show results. Anyone can take a video chopping up a tree, but if they don't show whether the tree survived, and if it did, what condition it was in, the video is somewhat pointless.

It is a very basic thing to go back into your video one year later, splice in 5 minutes of new content, and repost it. So I am left assuming, if it doesn't happen, that the subject material died.

it survived nicely, Peter has shown the progress of the tree over the past months

 

[itisoktodance]

I struggle with this video. I don't care about the foliage... I only care about the roots - because that is what will determine whether the layer lives or dies. Instead we see 10 minutes of them pruning extraneous branches and talking about everything that doesn't matter.

So we have a three year air-layer project with roots only on one side of the trunk, that is separated and stuck into a large nursery container and we never see again. Who knows if this would be better than air-layering a smaller branch, getting better roots, separating it in one year, and letting it grow freely for two more years?

It sounds like I am ripping Peter Chan when actually I don't know the outcome, so perhaps he was super successful and now has an amazing tree. It would be great to get an update.

Don't worry, the airlayer survived. It was in the back of a recent video. I happened to recognize it cause I was looking for his airlayering content. So it's still alive, to my knowledge.

You can probably get it to root, but practically, it's not worth it. First, the species isn't the greatest for bonsai. That's the smallest issue.

IF you get it to root (if you've not neglected the air layer with watering and monitoring because you go tired of climbing up there to do it) how are you going to sever such a huge piece of wood without destroying the new, brittle roots?--chainsaw vibrations, handling the trunk, etc.--(also what are you doing up a tree with a running chainsaw? ) . Also, if you are successful in severing it, how you gonna get it down without destroying the roots. That section will likely weigh well over 50 lbs and its bulky dead weight. If you successfully get it down, you have a container big enough to handle it?

Yeah, it's a picturesque section of tree, but there are so many practical issues with it, it ain't worth the trouble. Also even if you overcome all that, in the end, that weird angle on what would be the apex can't be changed and its a real problem with what would be the final design.

Just sayin, sometimes this kind of thing is best admired from the ground and left alone...

You make some very very strong points. Again, bonsai or design isn't my main point here, it's really just to preserve part of the tree before the municipality takes it down. I'd be happy even just to plant it in the ground elsewhere. But like you said, it's going to be a bitch, and might take too long to root, by which time it's probably gonna get taken down. But all these things you listed... so many variables. I'm not likely to succeed, it seems.

This is the habit of silver maples in most conditions. They are brittle weak wooded trees that normally do fall apart as they get older. Believe me, I have been around awhile and outlived many of them.
Climate change is real, but these trees are seldom planted by builders in the states any more because they have become a liability.

That's very good to know. Yeah, they're very much a liability here as well. As are our native birches and poplars that used to grow everywhere, but have been destroying cars and power lines in the past few years now. Every year more and more trees die, even natives, and no one is doing anything about it besides chopping trees down...

Don't know the answer to your questions but if your objective is to preserve piece of this tree and keeping it alive why don't you airlayer any of the three branches coming out of it. I think the one that goes to the right on the photo is a good candidate for successful airlayer.

... just as an alternative idea...

I just liked the deadwood as a sort of statement about perseverance. I have a little sapling from this tree already. But in any case, i was definitely looking at that lower right branch as an alternative candidate if I did chicken out of this decision. Looks like I'll just end up going for that one instead.

Thanks everyone for helping me make up my mind!

 

[bestbluebeans]

Here is the outcome of the Herons Bonsai maple

bbb

 

[leatherback]

It is a very basic thing to go back into your video one year later, splice in 5 minutes of new content, and repost it. So I am left assuming, if it doesn't happen, that the subject material died.

Exactly the reason why my videos often are taped in several sessions: so you can show the outcome. (As in one of them, a bunch of dead sticks)

 

[penumbra]

Exactly the reason why my videos often are taped in several sessions: so you can show the outcome. (As in one of them, a bunch of dead sticks)

I am impressed by your vids I have seen.

 

[Vali]

1. Is it possible at all to airlayer a hollow trunk tree?

Yes, it is. I have done that.

Above you can see the state the trunk was in. A large part of it is rotten.
Below you can notice how much of the trunk is dead:

The roots after 2 growing seasons:

This was the tree a few days ago, in the first growing season on it's own roots:

Maybe this helps