Urban Yamadori Photos - Aftercare

[FoldedFrog]

Collected a rather nice urban yamadori yesterday (ethically and with permission). For scale this is in a 24" pot. This guy was in some nice, light soil which terminated at a layer of Georgia red clay about 12" deep (this helped keep the roots fairly shallow). There were two larger lateral roots that had to be cut but it still has plenty of fine feeder roots at the base of the tree. Before I collected, I ventured into the woods and raked back the pine top layer down to the micorrhiza-laden layer of humus and obtained about half a bucket which I chopped up and screened as an inoculant. I mixed this with some organic conifer bonsai soil mix and prepared the pot. The rootbal was so light that despite my (and my cohort's) best efforts, it fell apart as we gently tipped it to get a tarp underneath. Still, you are as careful as you can be given each situation. I don't do much collecting and my results have, of course, been mixed in the past. Since this is a conifer, I kept as much of the root ball soil intact as possible and placed this as gingerly in the pot as (we) could, filling the bottom and sides with my soil mix. Aftercare is where I would like the most feedback. So far, here are my plans:

Keep the foliage misted several times a day
Make sure the soil stays at least damp but not saturated (I've always wondered how to balance this between the original soil in the pot and the granular bonsai soil around the periphery)
No direct sunlight but no overhead shade for a while. I prefer that the tree looks up at clear blue sky while in recovery then moved to a spot of morning sun later.
I also believe in a light application or good organic fertilizer during recovery. I know that others don't, but I don't want to deny vitamins to a sick patient.

Question: Insecticide/Fungicide at this time, yes or no?
Any other tricks of the trade you guys may have found particularly successful?
I welcome all opinions but arguments typically don't help me!

 

[vbakatare]

loving the movement!

 

[FoldedFrog]

loving the movement!

Thanks! Main attraction for me!

 

[Shibui]

That's a great score. Don't often see garden grown juniper trunks with such bends.

Make sure the soil stays at least damp but not saturated (I've always wondered how to balance this between the original soil in the pot and the granular bonsai soil around the periphery)

This is the main reason I get rid of most of the field soil when transplanting. We are told over and over that garden soil and pots don't mix but then we have an obsession with retaining the garden soil when transplanting to pots. Where's the logic and consistency?
My transplants survive just fine when the field soil is removed. They probably survive even better than if the soil was retained and put in the pots with the trees.

I'm not in favor of fungicide or pesticide unless there's a problem. No need for treatment now. Neither will help the tree transplant.

Juniper seem to transplant better when there are plenty of active growing tips left on the branches and it appears you have left enough here so I'm optimistic about survival - and a little jealous of your find.

Juniper typically recover slowly so I don't consider juniper transplant as successful until they have grown well through an entire summer after digging. Continue care as outlined earlier. Some additional cold protection through your winter may be in order then reintroduce it to sun next spring but allow free growth all next year before embarking on any further pruning, etc.

Is that a bag worm case hanging on one branch? I hear they are more ferocious over there so might be worth removing it before it eats too much more foliage.

 

[coachspinks]

Collected a rather nice urban yamadori yesterday (ethically and with permission). For scale this is in a 24" pot. This guy was in some nice, light soil which terminated at a layer of Georgia red clay about 12" deep (this helped keep the roots fairly shallow). There were two larger lateral roots that had to be cut but it still has plenty of fine feeder roots at the base of the tree. Before I collected, I ventured into the woods and raked back the pine top layer down to the micorrhiza-laden layer of humus and obtained about half a bucket which I chopped up and screened as an inoculant. I mixed this with some organic conifer bonsai soil mix and prepared the pot. The rootbal was so light that despite my (and my cohort's) best efforts, it fell apart as we gently tipped it to get a tarp underneath. Still, you are as careful as you can be given each situation. I don't do much collecting and my results have, of course, been mixed in the past. Since this is a conifer, I kept as much of the root ball soil intact as possible and placed this as gingerly in the pot as (we) could, filling the bottom and sides with my soil mix. Aftercare is where I would like the most feedback. So far, here are my plans:

Keep the foliage misted several times a day
Make sure the soil stays at least damp but not saturated (I've always wondered how to balance this between the original soil in the pot and the granular bonsai soil around the periphery)
No direct sunlight but no overhead shade for a while. I prefer that the tree looks up at clear blue sky while in recovery then moved to a spot of morning sun later.
I also believe in a light application or good organic fertilizer during recovery. I know that others don't, but I don't want to deny vitamins to a sick patient.

Question: Insecticide/Fungicide at this time, yes or no?
Any other tricks of the trade you guys may have found particularly successful?
I welcome all opinions but arguments typically don't help me!


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Great looking material! Be careful of the wind as well. It isn't too bad here in Georgia but in late fall and during the winter there will be a few windy days.

 

[BrianBay9]

Can you explain your thinking on why you collected this spectacular tree now? Why not wait for traditional winter/early spring collecting?

 

[sorce]

don't want to deny vitamins to a sick patient.

If we are giving human characteristics to trees, keeping them in shade is denying the first necessary life giving essential.

Any found evidence of full sun being bad can probably be proved wrong due to other undisclosed information.

If you collected roots in the amount of 50% or better of the remaining foliage, you got nothing to worry about.

Nice.

Sorce

 

[rockm]

Can you explain your thinking on why you collected this spectacular tree now? Why not wait for traditional winter/early spring collecting?

Good question. Garden junipers are not easy to collect successfully, particularly an older tree like this one, that sounds like it has basically been bare-rooted. As for the "vitamins" thing, plants aren't humans. Fertilizers aren't vitamins and thinking so will complicate your already challenging recovery with this tree. What are your overwintering plans?

 

[FoldedFrog]

That's a great score. Don't often see garden grown juniper trunks with such bends.


This is the main reason I get rid of most of the field soil when transplanting. We are told over and over that garden soil and pots don't mix but then we have an obsession with retaining the garden soil when transplanting to pots. Where's the logic and consistency?
My transplants survive just fine when the field soil is removed. They probably survive even better than if the soil was retained and put in the pots with the trees.

I'm not in favor of fungicide or pesticide unless there's a problem. No need for treatment now. Neither will help the tree transplant.

Juniper seem to transplant better when there are plenty of active growing tips left on the branches and it appears you have left enough here so I'm optimistic about survival - and a little jealous of your find.

Juniper typically recover slowly so I don't consider juniper transplant as successful until they have grown well through an entire summer after digging. Continue care as outlined earlier. Some additional cold protection through your winter may be in order then reintroduce it to sun next spring but allow free growth all next year before embarking on any further pruning, etc.

Is that a bag worm case hanging on one branch? I hear they are more ferocious over there so might be worth removing it before it eats too much more foliage.

Thanks so much for your input and nice comments! I agree with your comments regarding the soil. We are told about the importance of mycorrhizal, especially for conifers, it leaves one feeling nervous about getting too close to bare rooting an older tree. Maybe there are two opposing needs for the tree that warrants a season of mixing of the soils during a transplant like this, but then a slower transition to the pure bonsai soil over time while one has better control over the impact of repotting(?) I dunno.

I also agree with you on the prophylactic application of chemicals although I do know some really high profile bonsai artists who practice this religiously. I also don’t like what they can do to me! My dad died of leukemia after working in a factory for 23 years that utilized toluene. You never know!

You are correct about the bag worm cases. There were several that I removed after the pictures were taken. They appeared to be relics but I should probably dust with seven at least(?) That portion of the tree was kind of nestled in the foliage of an adjacent juniper and so I’m hoping that the new-found air and light will help.

I’ve also experienced the juniper’s ability to succumb over a very long period of time. I’ve collected a couple that took 7 months to let slip this mortal coil!

I will take great care this winter. I’m keeping the tree on a cart in my driveway and will pull it inside my garage on really cold nights. Excellent feedback! Thanks again!

 

[FoldedFrog]

Can you explain your thinking on why you collected this spectacular tree now? Why not wait for traditional winter/early spring collecting?

Good question. I had my eye on this guy for a few years now. I finally found the nerve to stop and ask permission to remove/replace this specimen. To be honest, I thought the guy would tell me to "pound sand"! Fortunately, after some consideration, he said, "Ok, I don't mind." Bottom line, one consideration was that I didn't want him to have time to change his mind.
I also have had pretty much equal success with transplanting junipers after the summer quiesence as I have in the spring (pines-not so much). Georgia springs can be a bit unpredictable in terms of temperature and rain. I've seen brutally hot springs lately. If you have to wait too long for the spring flush and it turns really hot and dry, you can wind up with a challenging aftercare - IMO. I can pretty easily control how much cold protection I give this tree by simply rolling it into my garage on really cold nights - even up to December if I want. We generally tend to ease into winter.

 

[A. Gorilla]

Dude...

 

[FoldedFrog]

Good question. Garden junipers are not easy to collect successfully, particularly an older tree like this one, that sounds like it has basically been bare-rooted. As for the "vitamins" thing, plants aren't humans. Fertilizers aren't vitamins and thinking so will complicate your already challenging recovery with this tree. What are your overwintering plans?

No, it wasn't bare rooted by any means. Quite the opposite. I apologize if I wrote something that lead you to think that. I worked to kept the native soil intact with the root ball and lifted and transferred everything to the container. My vitamin analogy (not to be taken literally of course) was taken from Brent Walston. Plants need nutrients to thrive. In a weakened state they can be over fertilized or they may succumb to a lack thereof. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Dang, I'm jealous!
Great looking beast!

I'm all in favor of light nutrient applications. Carbon alone doesn't cut it. Enzymes, chlorophyll, and everything 'functional' in a plant contains something other than carbon. To stay alive, carbon alone is fine. To add and flourish, it needs more that just air and water.

 

[FoldedFrog]

Dang, I'm jealous!
Great looking beast!

I'm all in favor of light nutrient applications. Carbon alone doesn't cut it. Enzymes, chlorophyll, and everything 'functional' in a plant contains something other than carbon. To stay alive, carbon alone is fine. To add and flourish, it needs more that just air and water.

Thank you for your nice comments! I am aware of the damage that too much salts can impart on new, tender hair roots so I acknowledge the concern is legit. Also, application of manufactured chemical fertilizers is particularly concerning at this point. I personally think that the operative phrase is as you say "light nutrient application" (IMO specifically organic matter to the top of the soil and letting the water application meter the materials through over time). This particular tree was in a well maintained grassy area for decades where the grass was continously cut and vacuumed away and no other large trees or plants were in the area to create organic matter. To me this adds up to a very nutrient poor soil (even if there were plenty of nutrients in the originally transplanted soil, they must have been long ago depleted). Realizing the very legitimate concern, caution is key but leaving it completely nutrient poor at this critical time shouldn't be essential to survival.

The following is from Brent Walston article that I was referring to earlier:

"Fertilizer is frequently referred to as plant food. This is a poor concept. The real food for plants is carbon dioxide and water. These two bulk materials with the addition of sunlight are converted to sugars and carbohydrates that do the actual feeding of the plant. Fertilizer is much more analogous to vitamins. The nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and minor elements contained in fertilizer are necessary for cell division and enzyme processes that allow photosynthesis and growth to proceed. The amount of these elements that a plant uses in manufacturing growth is really quite small, only a few percent of dry tissue weight..."

"...Another common bonsai myth is that sick or recovering plants, or newly transplanted bonsai should not be fertilized. The analogy is that it will over feed the patient or is the equivalent of over dosing with vitamins. I think the proper analogy should be that feeding at half strength or not all is analogous to not taking your medicine, vitamins and nutrition when you are sick.

The recommended strength is designed to produce a soil solution of fertilizer salts at a specific range of electrical conductivity. In this range it is very easy for plants to pick up the various N,P, and K ions. It doesn't matter if the plant is a seedling, newly rooted cutting, newly root pruned bonsai, or recovering plant. They all will pick up nutrients more easily if fed in this range.

Roots are roots. Probably the most tender roots you will ever come across are the newly formed adventitious roots on a cutting. These are very fleshy and extremely fragile. I have fertilized my newly rooted cuttings (and seedlings) for years with full strength soluble fertilizers and they have all thrived. In fact, they quickly show chlorosis if I don't feed them at this level."

Here's a link to the article:

Fertilizing your Bonsai

 

[leatherback]

This is a gorgeous tree.

Fertilizer: not needed. Plants have great reserves of most nutrients under normal conditions. Just let it get settled in. Once in spring you get the first signs of new growth, start fertilizing as you would your other trees.

I would protect from midday sun and wind for the time being.

Great find. Do Not Kill It!

 

[FoldedFrog]

This is a gorgeous tree.

Fertilizer: not needed. Plants have great reserves of most nutrients under normal conditions. Just let it get settled in. Once in spring you get the first signs of new growth, start fertilizing as you would your other trees.

I would protect from midday sun and wind for the time being.

Great find. Do Not Kill It!

Thank you so much! I will do all I can to make it a lasting work of art for future generations. And, fear not! I may not post very much but I have decades of experience in bonsai!

 

[A. Gorilla]

I'm heckin jelly

 

[FoldedFrog]

I'm heckin jelly

 

[leatherback]

I'm heckin jelly

If you put it like that. Yes. Concur.

 

[Berra]

Off topic: may I ask how you found this spectacular material? (I mean, just going around looking? Classifieds?) Just looking for Common ways to find material