Unidentified J. Maple

[my nellie]

Well, I checked the air layer bags yesterday and only some callus is what I found...
I wait until the leaves fall off and then I will chop the trunk.
Question : Is there any feasibility in using the two layered branches a hard wood cuttings?
What do you think?
In any case, I have nothing to loose

 

[AlainK]

Hi Alexandra,

Hardwood cuttings are much more difficult to succeed than air-layers for Japanese maples.

Even for airlayers, the rate of success is not the same for all cultivars, so I would just leave it as it is for now, and try again next spring, just before budbreak, refreshing the ring of bark that you did.

 

[my nellie]

Thank you for your reply, Alain.

... ... and try again next spring, just before budbreak, refreshing the ring of bark that you did.

This means that I will loose one more season of growing the main tree itself...
So, I will chop the trunk coming week.
Do you have any suggestions on this?
My first thought is that I would like to keep both trunks. One higher than the other.

 

[AlainK]

This means that I will loose one more season of growing the main tree itself...

Well, maybe sometimes it's better to lose a season than to spoil a tree

My first thought is that I would like to keep both trunks. One higher than the other.

It would be interesting to see the tree leafless: it depends where the two trunks start. The higher, the more awkward it will look.

No need to hurry: post photos of the bare tree, then you'll get more advice from others.

Festina lente.
Chi va piano va sano...
όποιος πηγαίνει να σχεδιάσει είναι υγιής

 

[my nellie]

Well, maybe sometimes it's better to lose a season than to spoil a tree
Hopefully, what I am going to loose are those "new trees" expected from the air layers, isn't it?
... ... No need to hurry:
Yes, indeed!
... ... Chi va piano va sano..., όποιος πηγαίνει να σχεδιάσει είναι υγιής
Damn Google translation
The correct translation should be : "Όποιος πηγαίνει αργά, πηγαίνει ασφαλής"

Festina lente = σπεῦδε βραδέως

 

[AlainK]

Damn Google translation
The correct translation should be : "Όποιος πηγαίνει αργά, πηγαίνει ασφαλής"

Désolé, really sorry.

And I would love to hear the music of the language too. You know, we all owe so much to the Greek culture, but hardly anyone here can speak ancient or modern Greek, except a couple of French/Latin & Greek teachers that greet me saying |kalimera] (or smthg), and I reply with a smile smthg like [polykala]

It's a private joke between us because they know... it's all Greek to me ! (in French, we say, "c'est de l'hébreu", "that's hebrew")

Thanks, music is a universal language...

 

[my nellie]

Update
I pruned back the two trunks. Not exactly where they should be pruned but I've kept them longer so that I could make my mind better after consulting with you, if you feel like that it is

I would like to keep both trunks, but I am not completely satisfied with their shape though.
The tree was an ordinary garden decorative tree, pruned in such a way that it didn't have any lower branches. It has no special interest... But I have hopes in maples ability to easily back bud.

I was reading in another thread @MACH5 saying that he likes twin trunk maples.
I also remember the Japanese maple of @Smoke which I have seen on his blog and has also two trunks.
So what do you think of this one? Is it better to cut back the trunks further low?
Coming spring the first thing I am doing is revealing the surface roots and further decrease the rootball.
I also intend to screw/fasten the base of the tree onto a board and spread the roots like the tutorial of @markyscott on Ebihara maples.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

If intending a double trunk try to make the thinnest one the shortest. It's my feeling you are running faster than the tree. The airlayers did Rob some energy. I would suggest getting the tree at warp speed first. My choice would be to let it grow in 2018. Repot in 2019 shop 2020 repot 2022.

 

[my nellie]

If intending a double trunk try to make the thinnest one the shortest. It's my feeling you are running faster than the tree. The airlayers did Rob some energy... ...

Thank you for your time, Dirk!
Indeed the shortest out of two trunks should be the thinnest, but I have kept the thinnest longer because I am kind of unsure where to cut.
The first lower branch of this trunk gives me the choice to make the cut at that point and get advandage of some taper.

Your schedule is of course thoughtfull... Perhaps I am running because I thought the J. maple equal to the tridents but I reckon this is not the case?
J. maples are treated differently obviously?
This is the first palmatum of mine and despite all the reading on the internet -especially here at BNut- I feel uncertain because of the lack of experience.
How well do Acer palmatum bud back from dormant adventitious buds?

Dirk, thank you very much once again and I wish you Merry Christmas!


P.S.: in fact I have already appreciated your posts especially regarding pines

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Update
I pruned back the two trunks. Not exactly where they should be pruned but I've kept them longer so that I could make my mind better after consulting with you, if you feel like that it is

I would like to keep both trunks, but I am not completely satisfied with their shape though.
The tree was an ordinary garden decorative tree, pruned in such a way that it didn't have any lower branches. It has no special interest... But I have hopes in maples ability to easily back bud.

I was reading in another thread @MACH5 saying that he likes twin trunk maples.
I also remember the Japanese maple of @Smoke which I have seen on his blog and has also two trunks.
So what do you think of this one? Is it better to cut back the trunks further low?
Coming spring the first thing I am doing is revealing the surface roots and further decrease the rootball.
I also intend to screw/fasten the base of the tree onto a board and spread the roots like the tutorial of @markyscott on Ebihara maples.

Thanks in advance.

Hi my nellie,
I have added a trunk chop photo from my experience a couple of months ago, as you can see it buds everywhere there is a ring around the trunk.
So if you were to chop the left hand trunk by just below its first branch (sorry can’t do virtuals lol), there is a ring or two there and plenty of rings on your main trunk.
Of course you might not get buds exactly where you want them but I think I am pretty safe in assuming that the tree won’t die.
And the reward is a really cool tree with nice taper.
Also, as a newbie I don’t want to come across as a know-all, but it feels to me that you may want to ground layer this tree closer to the FORK, to give the semblance of a “twin trunk” not just a single trunk with a low branch.
2 cents added
Charles

 

[my nellie]

Hello Charles,
Thank you for your response!

Hi my nellie,
I have added a trunk chop photo from my experience a couple of months ago, as you can see it buds everywhere there is a ring around the trunk.
Amazing isn't it? You are coming into summer over there, aren't you?
... ... it feels to me that you may want to ground layer this tree closer to the FORK, to give the semblance of a “twin trunk” not just a single trunk with a low branch.
I feel that this has similar reasoning like @AlainK said above

... ... it depends where the two trunks start. The higher, the more awkward it will look... ...

2 cents added
There is a word of folk wisdom here in Greece which goes like : "bean after bean the sack is filled"
Some more cents wouldn't hurt though

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

It is correct that a healthy maple will bud back all over. If it's one or 20 buds depends on the amount of stored energy. You only have one time you can cut back from full power. Having the attempt of layering and not being a palmatum palmatum would incline my choice to building strength first. A weak tree chopped back will respond poor and will be susceptible for pathogens and bugs. But they are strong so you might roll the dice and get away with it. Happy holidays too.

 

[MACH5]

Αλεξάνδρα, as Dirk mentioned, cut the thinner trunk much shorter than your main trunk. Visually this always looks best. Rarely you would see in nature a twin trunk with the thinner one being taller. Even if so, it never looks right in a bonsai. You always want your main, focal trunk to be the tallest and thickest.

Being a red variety of Japanese maple, I agree again with proceeding with caution. Red varieties invariably are weaker than green ones. I would let it grow to reestablish its strength. Once there, I would highly consider air layering it right where the two trunks meet. In most cases, although there are exceptions, twin trunks should ideally not have a "neck" but always have its trunks come right from the soil line. Be advised, that you will be taking a risk layering it because these trees are not very vigorous. So either it might fail or you might just get a few roots. For me I rather try and have the best tree possible with the possibility of it dying than a mediocre one living. But that's just me.

 

[my nellie]

Thanks a lot both of you @MACH5 and @dirk hoorelbeke for your consideration.
The tree will be left alone to regain its stength and build energy reserve.
Lets hope we will talk again about this Acer after one year

 

[my nellie]

The "noid" is leafing out!

Is it normal that there are also flowers coming out with most of the leaves?
Aren't the flowers appearing after the tree is covered with foliage?

 

[AlainK]

Bonsoir Αλεξάνδρα,

The "noid" is leafing out!

Is it normal that there are also flowers coming out with most of the leaves?
Aren't the flowers appearing after the tree is covered with foliage?

No, on all species the flowers are showing very shortly after the first leaves begin to develop, this is perfectly normal.

AK

 

[my nellie]

Et bonsoir à vous aussi, @AlainK
Thank you very much for your reply. Made things clear to me!