Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

[ConorDash]

Next stage of this ones journey.. Repotting and beheading.
Still got more to remove but in it for the long haul.

The repotting job was crap but hopefully it'll be ok.
It was in the pot for too long it was a MESS of roots.

DSC_0223 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

How much of a mess of roots you say?

https://imgur.com/a/g7i2XvY

 

[ConorDash]

Now all I want is budding further down the tree...

DSC_0392 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0391 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

Still going.. Keeping the flowers on this time, so it looks good for some brief time before chopped again... LONG LONG term project.

DSC_0561 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0562 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0563 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0565 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

March 2018:

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

Hello, So these are 3 trees (1 is not an elm but 2 are so went in the Elm section, sue me!), that are my more experiment, worthless (apart from sentimental) and have no natural positives. So take off your master bonsai cap, with your taper and nebari talk and think more for fun and see what...

www.bonsainut.com

July 2018:

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

I'd chop the pyra to the lowest node. Wire some movement in the new leader and just let it grow free for a long time. You can chop it back to create taper every couple years. If you are happy with shohin I'd do the same thing except put a little more movement in the new leader. Maybe let it...

www.bonsainut.com

December 2018:

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

I'd chop the pyra to the lowest node. Wire some movement in the new leader and just let it grow free for a long time. You can chop it back to create taper every couple years. If you are happy with shohin I'd do the same thing except put a little more movement in the new leader. Maybe let it...

www.bonsainut.com

https://flic.kr/p/2dsxnqP

https://flic.kr/p/PGqFYv

September 2019 (18 months later):
DSC_0878 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0882 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0883 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0879 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

I've somewhat big hands, but the pics still badly convey the size. The base is certainly flaring out a lot more than I thought, it seems to flare out even more but I didn't want to dig down anymore. Needless to say, its going well. The branch/trunk on the right is nearly as thick as the initial trunk. Looking at it now, the taper actually fits really well. Almost as if I should cut now to work on next section.

Does any reckon I can do anything now to help it along, aside from fert? Or certain cuts to grow for final shape?

I think another year in the ground then possibly it can be cut. If I do cut, I'll continue to leave it in the ground for faster growing. Whilst I can, it may aswell stay in the ground for as long as possible till it has primary branching in place.

The other half of this tree is still in the pot, barely having done anything. I've ignored it a lot, kept it alive.. I think I may plant it in the ground too, very soon.

 

[Johnnyd]

March 2018:

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

Hello, So these are 3 trees (1 is not an elm but 2 are so went in the Elm section, sue me!), that are my more experiment, worthless (apart from sentimental) and have no natural positives. So take off your master bonsai cap, with your taper and nebari talk and think more for fun and see what...

www.bonsainut.com

View attachment 264536
July 2018:

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

I'd chop the pyra to the lowest node. Wire some movement in the new leader and just let it grow free for a long time. You can chop it back to create taper every couple years. If you are happy with shohin I'd do the same thing except put a little more movement in the new leader. Maybe let it...

www.bonsainut.com

View attachment 264534
View attachment 264535


December 2018:

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

I'd chop the pyra to the lowest node. Wire some movement in the new leader and just let it grow free for a long time. You can chop it back to create taper every couple years. If you are happy with shohin I'd do the same thing except put a little more movement in the new leader. Maybe let it...

www.bonsainut.com

https://flic.kr/p/2dsxnqP

https://flic.kr/p/PGqFYv

September 2019 (18 months later):
DSC_0878 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0882 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0883 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0879 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

I've somewhat big hands, but the pics still badly convey the size. The base is certainly flaring out a lot more than I thought, it seems to flare out even more but I didn't want to dig down anymore. Needless to say, its going well. The branch/trunk on the right is nearly as thick as the initial trunk. Looking at it now, the taper actually fits really well. Almost as if I should cut now to work on next section.

Does any reckon I can do anything now to help it along, aside from fert? Or certain cuts to grow for final shape?

I think another year in the ground then possibly it can be cut. If I do cut, I'll continue to leave it in the ground for faster growing. Whilst I can, it may aswell stay in the ground for as long as possible till it has primary branching in place.

The other half of this tree is still in the pot, barely having done anything. I've ignored it a lot, kept it alive.. I think I may plant it in the ground too, very soon.

Looks like it responded well to going in ground!

 

[ConorDash]

Looks like it responded well to going in ground!

As they all would . I look at it every now and then, looks great at the moment. Not changed much since last pic due to winter but it’s getting really rough looking, which is great.
I think I’ll be leaving it to grow for one more season then potentially 2021, dig up and chopped.
Or maybe I’ll chop it and do initial styling, keeping it in the ground... would certainly make for faster growth. If I trunk chopped it in the ground, i couldn’t imagine how much it’ll explode with growth. But I’ll have to deal with those roots for a pot one day!

 

[ConorDash]

The experiment tree continues, shortened nearly to the last height.. next chop will be the last one.
Its possible I could have saved 3 years and cut to this height immediately but then I wouldn't have learnt bits along the way!

DSC_1319 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

Dont ask me my plan with this tree, I have it but I couldnt describe it lol

 

[ConorDash]

My long term plan tree... Shortened to final height, next section will go the next direction..

DSC_2010 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2009 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

Its going to stay in a pot this kinda size its whole life. I know putting ground would make it quicker but I think it will get a better tree in 10 years from a slow grow. Maybe some nice bark.

 

[ConorDash]

This ground growing Chinese Elm has gotten substantially bigger this year. It’s now 3.5-4” in diameter, it’s leader is 1.5”. The tree is 9ft tall.



Developing some nice bark too.
I’ll be moving house soon, so it’ll be dug up in a few months, but as a large rootball, keeping its soil and transplanted to the ground in new house. It shouldn’t impact the trees winter.

In Spring I’ll do some major work, cutting down the leader, and root work. I need to straighten the roots and get them as radial as possible. If I can, I’ll plant it on a board and back in the ground for potentially another 2 years.
I could possibly put in a flat box instead but I’m in no need to rush it now, so why not the ground.

 

[Shibui]

Ground is a great place to heal larger cuts because of faster growth and thickening but is not so good to establish branching. Growth in the ground is strong, straight and long internodes. None of those are good for your structure. i would move the tree to a grow box when trying to establish primary branches and the final apex. Progressively smaller boxes or pots as the ramification develops.

 

[ConorDash]

Ground is a great place to heal larger cuts because of faster growth and thickening but is not so good to establish branching. Growth in the ground is strong, straight and long internodes. None of those are good for your structure. i would move the tree to a grow box when trying to establish primary branches and the final apex. Progressively smaller boxes or pots as the ramification develops.

I'm with you. I would put in the ground after lifting in Spring, only to grow the next section of the leader and start working on better roots (but I understand they need controlling, as ground growing and roots, is a mess). It needs a few chops before primary branching will be looked at, and as you say, in the ground, that first chop will heal over much faster.
I believe we are on the same page?

 

[Shibui]

 

[ConorDash]

Another of the long projects/ugly ducklings, the new leader has put on good growth for the year, I regret not moving its position sooner, the angle is more acute that I would want, but I think it'll work out fine in the end and ill make it work, no matter what.
I also wired one of the lower branches, still rather thin, it'll become a primary branch in future. And wired another branch near the leader at the top, another primary in future. Nice little tree to just sit there and forget about.

DSC_2457 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2456 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2454 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ShadyStump]

That first elm looks like it might have a bit of a twist near the top that you could exaggerate some more. I would find that interesting. My interest in bonsai is maintained by spotting trees that don't look right, or normal, but are otherwise healthy. These are prime examples.

I'd say out it in a nice big pot or the ground to speed things up, and play with that twist as the new leader grows. Maybe train that second branch back and/or down. A deciduous cascade! With a twist

 

[ConorDash]

That first elm looks like it might have a bit of a twist near the top that you could exaggerate some more. I would find that interesting. My interest in bonsai is maintained by spotting trees that don't look right, or normal, but are otherwise healthy. These are prime examples.

I'd say out it in a nice big pot or the ground to speed things up, and play with that twist as the new leader grows. Maybe train that second branch back and/or down. A deciduous cascade! With a twist

You might have to be more specific with which tree you mean the pics I just posted are of a pyracantha... The other 2 are Elms, one is a 10ft tree in the ground, the other was only just plated in the ground this year, and has only just started growing, in time for winter. So next year itll do a lot better, although I have to dig it up to move house, but ill not be touching roots... so hopefully wont impact it.,

 

[ShadyStump]

That's all my bad. Didn't realize I was the better part of two pages behind when I posted. Sorry.