Trident seedlings planted through tiles, progression thread

[small trees]

With leaves finally dropping for me in South Georgia, I am able to see the other side of this tree for the first time this season (one in the first post). The tree leans towards this side as well so it is a good candidate for a future front.

 

[cmeg1]

Pretty serious base....I wish you a good time developing this!

 

[small trees]

Thank you, I'm excited to work the roots and give it a chop this spring. This is only (I think) 3 years from seed. I got it as a pencil-sized seedling two seasons ago. Trunk is a little over 2" above the nebari. Tempted to let it grow another season but the roots definitely need working.

 

[B.uneasy]

I realize this is a maple thread, but do you guys think this will be a good idea with my apple seedlings?

 

[MrWunderful]

I realize this is a maple thread, but do you guys think this will be a good idea with my apple seedlings?

You can “tourniquet” any deciduous species

 

[small trees]

Yes. I'm not at all sure of the growth habits of an apple tree, but in theory it should work. It works better on faster-growing species such as the maple.

 

[leatherback]

This is only (I think) 3 years from seed.

That is just mean to us in colder climates

 

[Corrado]

Will this method work for Larch? I have a nice wild larch from Upstate NY . It has a bad curve at near soil level that I cannot correct. I would like to get air layered radiating roots above this curve so I can cut that bottom portion out and start with a nice straight trunk and radiating roots. The trunk is about 1 inch thick and its in the ground, due for a uplift /root prune and possible setup for new air layered roots if it will work for Larch. I cant use a board of metal sheet since it has very nice branching along the trunk already but I could try the tourniquet method or girdle and plant it slightly lower into the ground. Any thoughts?

 

[small trees]

I don't know much about larch, I'd have to let someone else speak to that.


@leatherback I counted rings today, it is 4 years from seed. It will be the first photos in this post. The second one is three years from seed, I counted rings as well.

Today I dug two of the trees mentioned in this thread and worked the roots. Both were planted on a wooden slab, one of them got a couple root grafts. Then back into the ground they went to grow another couple years. I may choose a leader this year for the next section or I may decide to let them grow some more first. I am making videos about them but when I get home I'll post some good pictures of the root work. Definitely saw some things that I should have done differently. Luckily I have about 75 seedlings planted the same way they I can improve with.

Second tree has mainly turface around the base. The other Tridents that I have worked loved turface and had a ton of fine roots running through it, so maybe this will stimulate feeder root growth near the trunk.

 

[small trees]

a few images:

12 feet down to 7 or 8 inches:




A mess of roots:





After reducing them, I put it on a board and tried to arrange the roots as radially as possible. What are the odds that strong growth of these allows them all to fuse?





back into the ground:







This one has grown well:




Chopped off about 13 feet:





This one never had the small wooden block removed from under it. As a result, the roots are heavy and extend pretty far:





After reduction, a couple thread grafts. The root in this photo desperately needs to be undercut but I will wait until next year to do that.




Back in the ground:

 

[leatherback]

On the first picture of the trees in your last post I wondered whether this was planted deep enough. Now I see you grafting roots. I think my gut feeling is right..

I would plant it deeper, so that your nebari is pretty much fuller covered. The first half inch, inch will dry out fastest. But this is where you want backrooting to occur.

If you look at the one you dug, removed the wooden block and grafted roots: You see that the chopped root was even above-ground. No way I can see a tree throw roots under these circumstances.

I think you have amazing trees there. But that they might be better still if you burrie a little deeper, getting better roots. With good growth I see no reason why all these roots would not start to merge. You see it already happening on some sections. Nice.

 

[small trees]

I can bury them a little deeper, but the chopped root you speak of was done later in the season last year and it threw roots on the bottom of it. These are also in a grow bed with a watering system and I can control how wet or dry the area gets. I'll go take another look at them. I did uncover the nebari fully for the pictures. I covered it up some after the photos, but how much I'm not sure.

 

[cmeg1]

Looks good !! I especially like the thread grafts.I will probably be using this technique on some Zelkova I chopped that were planted on inverted clay saucers in ‘18’.I will probably use existing leaders on tree for branches.
Projects like this are fun.Mine are at 11 days,I guess they are rooting,as there are buds elongating now.Inside grow room so are getting excellent aftercare.

 

[small trees]

@leatherback I added a little soil on top, it can't hurt but I think it would have been fine.

@cmeg1 which technique? I assume you mean screwing what you have to a board? Although zelkova root well, what you are seeing now is probably energy that was already stored in the cuttings you took. If you mean the board technique, probably the most famous zelkova in the world was trained using this method.

 

[cmeg1]

@leatherback I added a little soil on top, it can't hurt but I think it would have been fine.

@cmeg1 which technique? I assume you mean screwing what you have to a board? Although zelkova root well, what you are seeing now is probably energy that was already stored in the cuttings you took. If you mean the board technique, probably the most famous zelkova in the world was trained using this method.

No,the threadgrafting technique lol.
Yea I hope mine are rooting and not just water sprouts!
I thought the same thing

 

[small trees]

No,the threadgrafting technique lol.
Yea I hope mine are rooting and not just water sprouts!
I thought the same thing

Ah, I see. I've not much experience with grafting but thread grafting is easy. I've practiced approach grafts with branches I've removed when chopping trees and I need more practice before I attempt it on a tree; I have a lot of trouble getting the groove right and then securing it properly. Thread grafts are much easier though and they tend to give a more natural look.

 

[small trees]

Root grafts have grown well and could probably be separated now. However, I'll wait until next year to be safe. This is a close up of one of the outgoing graft unions. The picture is a couple weeks old and when I checked today it looked to be fully fused.




Here are a couple shots of the tree mentioned at the top of post 30 above. Nothing to show really, but it is growing vigorously and I removed all lateral branching today to encourage the leader to grow as much as possible. Both trees have put on about 4.5 feet of growth so far this year.








i have also started about 75 seedlings through either metal tiles or through washers as an experiment. The ones planted through a metal tile have all thrown roots above the tile while none of the washers have yet to do so. I'd like some input from Adair or Matt on this. I know Adair mentioned cutting the bottom off as soon as the top began to swell/callous but I did try that on one seedling and it promptly died. I think I may need a little more instruction on proper timing there.

 

[Adair M]

Root grafts have grown well and could probably be separated now. However, I'll wait until next year to be safe. This is a close up of one of the outgoing graft unions. The picture is a couple weeks old and when I checked today it looked to be fully fused.

View attachment 310865


Here are a couple shots of the tree mentioned at the top of post 30 above. Nothing to show really, but it is growing vigorously and I removed all lateral branching today to encourage the leader to grow as much as possible. Both trees have put on about 4.5 feet of growth so far this year.

View attachment 310867

View attachment 310866

View attachment 310868


i have also started about 75 seedlings through either metal tiles or through washers as an experiment. The ones planted through a metal tile have all thrown roots above the tile while none of the washers have yet to do so. I'd like some input from Adair or Matt on this. I know Adair mentioned cutting the bottom off as soon as the top began to swell/callous but I did try that on one seedling and it promptly died. I think I may need a little more instruction on proper timing there.

I don’t remember saying that, but I might have. But, I think what I meant was to remove the bottom once the top created roots, not just swelled.

 

[ConorDash]

This looks great, Im sure it will turn in to a good thread, as you are trying to mimic Brian's. Maybe it'll be better than his .

This does inspire me to do them myself, I just need to get some of these seedlings.. I could grow from seed, as buying seeds would be easy, just prefer not to.. Finding the seedlings isn't so easy though! Will try myself.
This is looking really good though! I was going to say on one of your posts earlier, its a Trident right? Chopping back to no branch should be a breeze for them, they will surely back bud? But less risk your way, fair enough!

 

[Shibui]

How does the graft look on the other side?
For root graft you need union on the root side. Outgoing union gives you nothing.
I have had a few where the outgoing fused real well like this but the root side did not and the roots just wither away when the top joins to the main tree. I got scars but no new roots
Check the other side.