Tree anatomy, pruning, and root pruning

[Adair M]

Gentlemen, please!!!

If you notice on that video, Graham edited quite of bit out. He did not show how he wired in the root ball, for instance. He did not show how he cut the bottom off the root ball. It did show him picking at one top edge with the rake.

If I were a betting man, I'd say he cut the bottom off with scissors. Having worked on refined roots like that, scissors work better than a saw because they don't tear the roots like a saw would.

When I am working trees grown in nursery pots that have never been worked before, yes, I will use a saw to cut the root ball in half. Then use root pruners or scissors to clean up the cuts.

Let me repeat: Graham knew what the status of that root ball was going to be. It makes for a very dramatic video. The Original Poster said something to the effect: "Wow! How did he do that?!?" Graham picked that plant/old pot/new pot because he knew that it would be impressive. Especially to new comers. After all, he is advertising himself on these videos.

 

[october]

Like Adair said in regards to trying to the saw. The saw is the basically the last resort. It is meant for cement like and seemingly impenetrable root balls.

Rob

 

[sherwoodschwartz]

an old chinese proverb

goes a little like this:

beware those who quote themselves.

 

[JohnW63]

Thanks for the helpful replies, guys.

I think the one thing I have not yet found is " The beginners guide to tree roots ". Until very recently, I didn't know there were different TYPES of roots and figured they were all rather important. In my mind I figured that this root fed this section of the tree and these roots fed these parts. If you chopped them off, you just cut off the food supply and parts of your tree may die.

At least I know, from that video what a GOOD mass of roots looks like. Now I need to learn how to make that happen.

As for the less helpful posts .... It's good to see people posting with a passion and opinions on something as mundane as how to trim plant roots. If I tell the guys at work about it, I'm sure I will get a few OMGs. Hopefully not all of my posts will lead to a touch of flame.

 

[Dan W.]

Hi John, welcome to the forum. I didn't watch the video yet, (so I don't know what type of tree he's working on) but I'll add a few things here quick: First junipers are the ones you need to worry about cutting off the wrong roots with. They can have different roots feeding different parts of the tree. Pines and deciduous trees in general don't split things up this way.

Start at http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/ and go to Brents "articles" page. You will find well written an illustrated articles about pruning and most any other bonsai related practice.

 

[JohnW63]

Dan,

I read through most of the articles on the Evergreen site before I found this forum. I think I need more detail and drawings or pictures to know what I am looking for and what to cut and when to leave it alone.

 

[JohnW63]

Follow up on pruning.

I found this web page that suggests that pruning a branch back flush with the track is a bad idea.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg089

Yet, isn't that the purpose of using a concave pruner ? Maybe there are competing theories out there on the subject.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

As for the less helpful posts .... It's good to see people posting with a passion and opinions on something as mundane as how to trim plant roots. If I tell the guys at work about it, I'm sure I will get a few OMGs. Hopefully not all of my posts will lead to a touch of flame.

John, please accept my apologies for erupting on your thread yesterday. Rest assured, it had nothing to do with you or your posts. This is a good forum and you can find nearly everything bonsai you're looking for...including, apparently, a good old fashioned Jerry Springer Show tantrum from yours truly.

A word of advice I give to new club members: if you are receiving advice on bonsai from someone, get a look at their trees first. It will help you determine how closely to listen.

kind regards,
BVF

 

[Poink88]

Damn D,

I was really trying hard to just have a conversation and you're so stuck in your arrogant funk you lash out and attack my common sense without merit. I look forward to watching your youtube channel. I'll subscribe and like every video. I promise.

You got hit because you chose to...my response is towards jkl's post not you.

If anyone care to read my first post in its entirety (and with an open mind), they would understand. However, most just read parts of it, see what they want to see then start charging. They lump the first half of my statement to untrained trees which I specifically mentioned to be treated differently.

Don't wait for any youtube from me...I am not into that thing...probably because I am ugly and sounds bad LOL (sorry Brian your production idea goes down the drain with this one) LOL. I sincerely appreciate those who post/share their videos though.

Have a good day.

 

[Dan W.]

John, it may be safer to treat your landscape tree like that. But the reason we cut flush with deciduous bonsai is to get a clean wound that will heal over smooth so that we don't leave ugly scars and stumps in the composition. -- On the other hand, juniper's and pines's often get jin or shari so we often leave stubs and even whole dead branches.

 

[Dirty Nails]

A word of advice I give to new club members: if you are receiving advice on bonsai from someone, get a look at their trees first. It will help you determine how closely to listen.

kind regards,
BVF

BINGO! The proof is in your trees. BVF, Al and others with long term refined trees on display have a wealth of experience to share. It would be a real shame for their participation to go away because of the BS that gets thrown around.

 

[sherwoodschwartz]

You got hit because you chose to...my response is towards jkl's post not you.

If anyone care to read my first post in its entirety (and with an open mind), they would understand. However, most just read parts of it, see what they want to see then start charging. They lump the first half of my statement to untrained trees which I specifically mentioned to be treated differently.

Don't wait for any youtube from me...I am not into that thing...probably because I am ugly and sounds bad LOL (sorry Brian your production idea goes down the drain with this one) LOL. I sincerely appreciate those who post/share their videos though.

Have a good day.

the energy you expend to defend your lack of experience is breathtaking. you seem to think that the people who take exeption to your posts are doing so merely because you are some sort of outside-the-box maverick who wants to blaze his own trail. i think the actual reasons, which have laid out fairly clearly- and yet somehow fall on your deaf ears- are that you proffer advice without having much experience. then, when someone points out how silly this is, you claim that some people don't need their hands held. strangely enough, you have been holding the hands of every experienced bonsai artist you glean info from. it takes a special person to know a little, claim they know a lot, and then get pissy when seasoned practitioners call BS.

 

[Poink88]

the energy you expend to defend your lack of experience is breathtaking. you seem to think that the people who take exeption to your posts are doing so merely because you are some sort of outside-the-box maverick who wants to blaze his own trail. i think the actual reasons, which have laid out fairly clearly- and yet somehow fall on your deaf ears- are that you proffer advice without having much experience. then, when someone points out how silly this is, you claim that some people don't need their hands held. strangely enough, you have been holding the hands of every experienced bonsai artist you glean info from. it takes a special person to know a little, claim they know a lot, and then get pissy when seasoned practitioners call BS.

Thank you for your contribution to the site.

 

[GrimLore]

wow! I just came inside after sitting in wonder outside looking at the property, the trees, and all of my considered so-so material. When I was out there for over 2 hours enjoying all that because the weather is wonderful today I realized it is what it is and I am not only smiling but additionally happy it is all alive and healthy

Then I sit down and read this and say to myself "who pee'd in everybody's cereal"...

 

[GrimLore]

Like Adair said in regards to trying to the saw. The saw is the basically the last resort. It is meant for cement like and seemingly impenetrable root balls.

Rob

I did a huge root cut on a Plum with a Stanley Crosscut hand saw last Spring - It is really a sensitive issue but given the proper time and such can be successful(My Wife thought I went crazy). Reading into a lot of this I firmly believe it depends on not only the tree but the knowledge of the owner.

 

[Poink88]

Like Adair said in regards to trying to the saw. The saw is the basically the last resort. It is meant for cement like and seemingly impenetrable root balls.

Rob

The "saw" I use on finer roots (like the one in the video) is an old bread knife. Try it, it works like a dream.

For nursery stock plants, I use a pruning saw. Different tool for different application.

 

[october]

One can use the saw whenever they chose. It is their material to do as they wish. However, the reality is that a root ball that is workable and just takes a little more time to undo is much better off with the chopstick method and a little patience. It is much better for the tree.

I can't recall one seasoned bonsai practitioner who would take a saw to beautiful, expensive bonsai or pre material, just to use the saw or for convenience. I think it might be a case of not being patient, maybe they were given bad information or maybe laziness in some cases. I mean, you saw the bottom off and comb out the roots. Bang, it's done in 10 minutes. However, starting from the base and gently combing out the root ball, then cutting, can take 3 -4 times longer or more.

I think what has happened is the necessaary practice of using the saw has somehow made it's way into basic bonsai instructions on some internet sources. You see people demonstrating, poorly, how to take a tree out of the pot and saw off the bottom portion. Making it seem like this is the standard on how you root prune bonsai. When in fact, it is not the standard, but the last resort.

Personally, I would much rather spend as long as it takes to comb out a root ball. I like to see what is being cut and pick my cuts carefully. Just my opinion.

Rob

 

[cmeg1]

Dan,

I read through most of the articles on the Evergreen site before I found this forum. I think I need more detail and drawings or pictures to know what I am looking for and what to cut and when to leave it alone.

March/April 2013 BonsaiFocus magazine