Too early to wire?

[DayDrunk]

I transplanted this guy in April and since then the split trunk branches have been growing closer to each other. Should I worry about it now or wait until next season (whatever the optimum season is to wire) to try to get the branches going where I want?

 

[cbroad]

For maples (and a lot of other deciduous trees), after bud burst through late spring is the worst time to try to wire. Their bark is prone to slipping off while trying to wrap the wire.

Wait until summer after the spring growth has hardened off and the newer stems have lignified.

Some people will wire again in the fall or winter, but there's another potential risk for doing that. Some trees will have trouble healing wounds at that time of year and the small breaks involved with wiring could cause die back of the wired stems.

This isn't the case with all trees though, I would research each different tree and check for optimum timing for wiring, pruning, repotting, etc...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Maples, most trees and marijuana should be wired in autumn or winter. If wired during spring and early summer the cambium will have a tendency to tear, killing anything past the tear.

Your out of focus photo looks a lot like marijuana, even though I thought it might be a maple.

Marijuana does not have true wood, it is best styled by clip and grow.

 

[Adair M]

For maples (and a lot of other deciduous trees), after bud burst through late spring is the worst time to try to wire. Their bark is prone to slipping off while trying to wrap the wire.

Wait until summer after the spring growth has hardened off and the newer stems have lignified.

Some people will wire again in the fall or winter, but there's another potential risk for doing that. Some trees will have trouble healing wounds at that time of year and the small breaks involved with wiring could cause die back of the wired stems.

This isn't the case with all trees though, I would research each different tree and check for optimum timing for wiring, pruning, repotting, etc...

Actually, spring and summer are the best times to wire deciduous trees. Yes, you have to be careful! But wiring the new green shoots before they lignify is the best time to put in curves. They’ll lignify in 6 weeks. And you can remove the wire. And the curves will be permanent.

 

[cbroad]

Yes, you have to be careful

Yes and especially so with very young shoots, but I wasn't going to start with baby bending because I'm pretty sure DayDrunk is new.

I've had trouble especially with one year old wood on my Japanese maples. I mangled a stem pretty bad wiring too early and surprisingly it still lived. 2 years and it isn't completely healed yet, actually it still looks pretty bad.

I just didn't want the OP to break out his wire and go to town without knowing the risks first.

 

[DayDrunk]

Ha, yeah I know my phone camera isn’t the best and I’ve had a few Miller Lites which probably didn’t help and yes I’m super new to the bonsai world. Just wanted to know if I needed to get those branches separated now or if it could wait. Trust me if it were weed the pics would be much more out of focus.?

 

[Carol 83]

Ha, yeah I know my phone camera isn’t the best and I’ve had a few Miller Lites which probably didn’t help and yes I’m super new to the bonsai world. Just wanted to know if I needed to get those branches separated now or if it could wait. Trust me if it were weed the pics would be much more out of focus.?

I know zero about maples, but agree with your choice of beer.

 

[Adair M]

Yes and especially so with very young shoots, but I wasn't going to start with baby bending because I'm pretty sure DayDrunk is new.

I've had trouble especially with one year old wood on my Japanese maples. I mangled a stem pretty bad wiring too early and surprisingly it still lived. 2 years and it isn't completely healed yet, actually it still looks pretty bad.

I just didn't want the OP to break out his wire and go to town without knowing the risks first.

One year old wood is already lignified!

No, I’m talking about wiring shoots that are 3 weeks old! Wire those! The stem is green, and soft. Yes, you have to be careful. But they’re bendable.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

One year old wood is already lignified!

No, I’m talking about wiring shoots that are 3 weeks old! Wire those! The stem is green, and soft. Yes, you have to be careful. But they’re bendable.

In reference to what @Adair M is saying, @grouper52 started a whole thread on the topic, he calls it baby bending. You can find the thread here https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/the-fine-art-of-baby-bending.18924/

I know that Tony Tickle does this to his hawthorns where he’ll wire the new shoots before they harden off because they are very bendable and not rigid or lignified yet.

 

[cbroad]

already lignified

Yeah and you can still slip the bark.

I don't think telling someone that's new to bonsai to try wiring supple new growth is a good idea. Sure you can tell them it's possible but the safest route is try to learn on older stems that are still pliable at the "better" time of year. Possibly destroying a tree when it could have been prevented is counterproductive for someone getting into the hobby.

 

[leatherback]

Should I worry about it now or wait until next season

If you have gentle fingers, and soft thin aluminium wire, I would say: Wire. Just note, the stem right now is made of tiny inflatable little water balloons: Easy to crush. The actual wood still has to form. So be very nice to the branch. No squeezing, just gently laying the wire around the branch. Then gentle bending. You only have one take: Do not attempt to correct wire that is put on wrong.

Alternatively, you can use just make a little hooky thing that pushes the branches apart. I would however consider it a good practice in being gentle when handling your plants.

I found It helps if you let the plant dry out a little; Else the young stems tend to snap if you bend too enthusiastically.

Worst thing that might happen is you loose this years' growth.

If you have no experience wiring, practice on some branches from a big bush first. Do NOT use steel wire, certainly not on your growth like this.

https://www.growingbonsai.net/baby-bending/

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Maples, most trees and marijuana should be wired in autumn or winter. If wired during spring and early summer the cambium will have a tendency to tear, killing anything past the tear.

Your out of focus photo looks a lot like marijuana, even though I thought it might be a maple.

Marijuana does not have true wood, it is best styled by clip and grow.

Marijuana is wired here as soon as there is rigidity in the branches, aluminium wire only. I use the 'bend, clip and grow' technique. Bohne calls it soft bending in his pommegrenates. Squeeze the stem until it's flat and just fold it at a 90° angle. Makes good and flat canopies, for an even yield.
Christmas tree shapes are soooo 2001.

 

[Adair M]

Yeah and you can still slip the bark.

I don't think telling someone that's new to bonsai to try wiring supple new growth is a good idea. Sure you can tell them it's possible but the safest route is try to learn on older stems that are still pliable at the "better" time of year. Possibly destroying a tree when it could have been prevented is counterproductive for someone getting into the hobby.

No, I’m not going to advocate what I consider a poor technique. I teach bonsai. I don’t tell beginners that I will teach them something that they will have to unlearn later! No, I teach everyone the best possible techniques and methods.

 

[Stan Kengai]

I agree with Adair on this. It's best to wait until the base of the new shoot begins to harden, which is signified by a change of color at the base. All plants are different in this change, so you have to carefully observe. The shoot may turn darker green, or slightly silver or bronze or red, or it may get bumps or speckles. If you wire before the base begins to harden, it is really easy to snap the shoot right off the trunk. But after the shoot begins to harden, there isn't much issue.

 

[DayDrunk]

Thanks for all the input folks. Just to be on the safe side I think I'll try the "little hooky thing" that Leatherback mentioned to spread them out a tad. Interesting read on the baby bending. I may try that once I get my feet under me a little.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks for all the input folks. Just to be on the safe side I think I'll try the "little hooky thing" that Leatherback mentioned to spread them out a tad. Interesting read on the baby bending. I may try that once I get my feet under me a little.

The “little hooky thing” is really no different than guy wiring.

The point to doing “baby bends” is you can get curves between internodes. A guy wire pulls in only one direction. With spiral wiring, you can put in lots of nice subtle curves: side to side, up, down, etc. Using simply clip and grow, you can induce a change of direction AT an internode, but not BETWEEN an internode.

Wiring is an essential skill to learn to do. It was the invention of wiring that elevated bonsai to the art that it is.

The longer you delay learning this skill, the longer it be before your bonsai improve.

 

[ColinFraser]

Good technique discussion here, but can I just be the first to address the material itself?

If the goal is to eventually have a tapered and proportional trunk, then most of what’s past that fork is probably irrelevant anyway. If you’re going to keep the slingshot and develop some kind of spreading canopy from there, then think about the trunk segments - the lowest segment should usually be the longest, and each segment up from there would generally get smaller/shorter . . .

If your slingshot “handle” is only 2 or 3 inches long, then your slingshot “arms” should really only be 1 or 2 inches long. You can see how this quickly presents a problem of scale when your leaves are 2” across and internodes are an inch long.

What’s the goal with this material?

 

[markyscott]

I transplanted this guy in April and since then the split trunk branches have been growing closer to each other. Should I worry about it now or wait until next season (whatever the optimum season is to wire) to try to get the branches going where I want?View attachment 244791

What’s your ultimate goal with this tree? Are you trying to grow a shohin? Something larger? Do you have a style in mind? Once we know where we’re going, we’ll be able to offer better advice on how best to get there.

S

 

[markyscott]

Duplicate post

 

[DayDrunk]

Something similar to this would be nice. I’m guessing a ground layering would be required later on. Haven’t really put too much thought into the end result to be honest, I have just always liked the look of twin trunk trees. My thinking was to let it grow for a few years and either keep it clipped short or do the “bend and grow” method to keep it shortish. I’d like it to be rather large for a bonsai, 3ft tall or so when done. Styling suggestions are welcome.